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German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

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Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#101

Seems like a good thread to ask then: What other digital bank options are there that are primarily EU based? N26 was the only one I found. I keep seeing things like Monzo, Monese, Revolut but they're all UK based. Don't think they'd be too impacted by Brexit but nevertheless I'm looking for an EU-first solution.

Fidor (https://www.fidor.de/en/) is based in Germany and is EU-only.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#102
post #4

I'm there. Management sent an email to all employees a week after the process was initiated about how the works council was against all their values, and they have an amazing idea for modern employee representation - one they only hired an external lawyer to present after the employees asked for a works council. Only a couple days ago, after having the invite in their hands for 10 days did they start complaining abou…

Let’s hope they fix it, because i am one of their customers and i am very happy so far. The user experience is great and support stellar.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#103

Seems like a good thread to ask then: What other digital bank options are there that are primarily EU based? N26 was the only one I found. I keep seeing things like Monzo, Monese, Revolut but they're all UK based. Don't think they'd be too impacted by Brexit but nevertheless I'm looking for an EU-first solution.

Neon is Switzerland-based (not EU).

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#104

> N26's co-founders Valentin Stalf and Maximilian Tayenthal have argued for an alternative, saying they believe the traditional German works council excludes international employees This is patently false. I work at a medium-sized startup in Berlin, which is very international, with many of my colleagues speaking little German. We have recently created a Works Council (with support from the management) - and the coun…

That's a little bit complicated. Yes, the law behind German works councils (Betriebsverfassungsgesetz) only applies to workers employed in Germany (Territorial principle), but the Federal Labour Court (Bundesarbeitsgericht) has ruled that international employees could also be govererned by the German works councils, if international employees are integrated into the German part of the company and are really depended on management in Germany (»„Ausstrahlung“ des Inlandsbetriebs« [1]). But it's a narrow definition.

But the law doesn't forbid applying agreements between the management and the works council (Betriebsvereinbarungen) to employees outside of Germany.

[1] https://www.vahlekuehnelbecker.de/2018/10/19/wann-ist-der-be...

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#105

Seems like a good thread to ask then: What other digital bank options are there that are primarily EU based? N26 was the only one I found. I keep seeing things like Monzo, Monese, Revolut but they're all UK based. Don't think they'd be too impacted by Brexit but nevertheless I'm looking for an EU-first solution.

Happy user of bunq.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#106
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, these are very different job markets, and totally different markets in general with a very different cost of living. If you want to compare the job markets, you'd also have to take that into consideration. The main reason why software engineers in the US make more on average are the FAANG companies and VC backed startups that pay insane salaries for their employees, primarily in the Bay Area with extremely high…

I don't think an entry level engineer in Germany earns €60K?

We pay our juniors 50k in Berlin (hiring manager).

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#107
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, these are very different job markets, and totally different markets in general with a very different cost of living. If you want to compare the job markets, you'd also have to take that into consideration. The main reason why software engineers in the US make more on average are the FAANG companies and VC backed startups that pay insane salaries for their employees, primarily in the Bay Area with extremely high…

I don't think an entry level engineer in Germany earns €60K?

Well I do, but that's an above average salary. As an entry level you can expect 45-50k on average, but I still think that's a fair comparison

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#108
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American salary: .... Dutch salary: .... American job market: .... Dutch or (even EU) job market: .... They are not comparable. In the Netherlands and Germany it feels like the only employees who make good money are management. Engineers are never going to be rich from working as engineers. The only way to make it is to break into management, and the odds are against you.

> American salary: .... Dutch salary: .... American standard of living (or lack thereof) vs Dutch standard of living. Considering this, I wouldn't bother to compare the US vs Dutch salary: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-americans-dont-have-the...

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Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#109
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American salary: .... Dutch salary: .... American job market: .... Dutch or (even EU) job market: .... They are not comparable. In the Netherlands and Germany it feels like the only employees who make good money are management. Engineers are never going to be rich from working as engineers. The only way to make it is to break into management, and the odds are against you.

Yes, these are very different job markets, and totally different markets in general with a very different cost of living. If you want to compare the job markets, you'd also have to take that into consideration. The main reason why software engineers in the US make more on average are the FAANG companies and VC backed startups that pay insane salaries for their employees, primarily in the Bay Area with extremely high…

[deleted]

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#110
post #69
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worker Councils seem to have broadly similar but slightly different rights and responsibilities in Germany. They are never mandatory, however employees do have the right to form one if there are at least five employees who are eligible to vote (18+) and if at least three of those can be elected (>6 months with the company, broadly speaking no one in an important management role). At least three employees have to take…

>That doesn’t really change that I’m currently still too scared to actually form one at the company I work for, even though I would very much like for it to exist. It still feels like painting a target on your back, even though Germany does not have at-will employment and you certainly cannot be fired or blocked or even just so much as reprimanded for wanting a form a Worker Council. At one of my previous employers t…

Why did forming the council fail?
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