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Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

stanforddaily.com

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Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#121

Post by watwut »

LargeWu wrote: post #56
netcan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat different take. The student debt problem is not really related to the college format. The format existed in earlier decades, exists in other countries and exists in K-12 education without runaway costs and student debt. It's mostly a matter of policy. The US' method to expand third level education to most of the population was by government backed and/or subsidized loans, without price controls. This caused…

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

> It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people.

I dunno honestly. Maybe it is different elsewhere, but the college was the most uniform place I have been at. I am not complaining, I liked the experience and did fit in. But it was not diversity in literally any sense of the word.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#122

Post by kritiko »

DataWorker wrote: post #102
gilbetron wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stanford and a number of the well positioned universities can weather the storm, which is why the are cancelling in person after hoping not to. https://www.profgalloway.com/uss-university

As with everything related to the pandemic, it kills the smaller competitors making those who will survive, schools like Stanford, Harvard, businesses like apple and google, have an even greater market dominance than before.

Apple and Google would be happy to have everybody in the world as their customer.

Stanford and Harvard, while offering some non-selective continuing ed / MOOC programs that leverage their name, are not looking to increase their enrollment for traditional degrees. Their exclusivity is part of their appeal.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#123

Post by chrisseaton »

elliekelly wrote: post #107
chrisseaton wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take your definition then all jobs are trades, in which case why do you think we have the word trade if it doesn’t add any new meaning, and what do you think a ‘profession‘ is? Have you never heard people make a distinction between tradespeople and professionals? What do you think the words in this article mean? Are they completely new concepts to you? https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-income-m…

It’s quite unnecessary for you to be so condescending. Of course I’m familiar with other uses of the word. Are you? Why are you so upset by what I’ve said? What is the distinction between a chef trained at a vocational school and a lawyer trained at a law school? Or a programmer trained at Stanford? Chefs produce something tangible, you might say. Lawyers do, too. We draft briefs and contracts and court filings. Or m…

> What is the distinction between a chef trained at a vocational school and a lawyer trained at a law school?

One is considered by society to be a 'tradesperson', while the other is considered a 'professional'. Society considers law to not be a 'trade' because it is a 'profession' instead and society sees these as mutually exclusive by definition.

I think what you really mean is you don't agree with society's definitions. That's fine - it's an interesting discussion and I didn't express any opinion on it myself. But I don't think you were ever really mistaken about what the original comment meant - you were feigning confusion as a rhetorical device, which is why I think other people down-voted you.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#124

Post by jstepka »

jimmar wrote: post #106

I'm a professor at a regional university. Not a big name school, but we have about 5,000 students. We would be bankrupt if we told students we'd only be offering classes online this fall because students, by an overwhelming majority, want the in-person experience. We know we would lose enrollment if we went fully online this fall, and the drop would be significant enough for the university to declare bankruptcy. Harv…

businesses go through these challenges all the time.

the fat that gets trimmed is what makes them better.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#125

Post by zdragnar »

Gracana wrote: post #87
LargeWu wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about the college format going completely online. There is so much about the college experience that is not directly related to earning a degree. It's a place where most people are exposed to new ideas, new types of people. It's a place where lasting friendships and relationships are formed. It's a place of growth that an online experience could never hope to replicate, and that's the REAL benefit of colle…

Is college actually good at that sort of thing, or is it just better than staying at home? If I spent half my college tuition on networking, social clubs, conferences, hobby groups, etc, I bet I could do a lot better than I did at my college campus.

Since education loans are legally protected from bankruptcy, good luck getting the school of hard knocks financed. It is, I think, a great idea if you are self motivated, but butts up against current reality.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#126

Post by amanaplanacanal »

netcan wrote: post #92
totalZero wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any parent who thinks that way is a moron. Educated uselessness is to the detriment of the kid. If you want to be happy and healthy in America, you must have a way to make money. (Or your parents must give you so much money that you're set for life.)

I would say that any parent who outright rejects this logic is a moron too, probably moreso. The idea that "social desirability" does not reflect actually valuable stuff is foolish. Class exists in some form in every society. People are always hyper-aware of class issues, and it has always been a primary part of the college/career decision process.

In the US we pretend that class doesn’t exist here. We have risen above that, you see, anybody here can become anything they want. Much the same way we pretend that racism doesn’t exist.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#127

Post by jeffbee »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #90
jeffbee wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computer software development has none of the characteristics of a profession, either. There's no licensure, no guild, no liability, and many people practice it without formal training. The software industry would benefit from moving in the direction of being either a "trade" without the manual labor, or toward being a real profession, but it currently occupies a weird middle ground.

TBH I think this is a feature, not a bug. Over-credentializing coding will limit creativity. If you want a better existing paradigm, consider design (as in the broad field of design, which includes graphic, fashion, industrial, etc.)

That's fine with me because I favor the trade direction. I tell my mentees to make things in good taste that they're proud to show people, like a cabinet maker.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#129

Post by jeffbee »

chrisseaton wrote: post #112
kolbe wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The distinction is purely a classist one. But functionally speaking, going to nursing school (a trade school) and going to medical school (a professional school) are the same concept, but with one side rebranding themselves as to not be associated with the lower class variant of their work. You’re right there is a legitimate distinction, but maybe we should stop. It is 2020 and thinking you’re “better” than other peo…

Yes there's still some funny distinctions being made - like in the UK some apartments are advertised as 'professionals only' and only 'professionals, teachers, and police officers' are allowed to sign and witness some documents I believe for some reason.

Wow. In California it is not lawful to even advertise housing that way, much less actually enforce it.

Re: Stanford cancels plans to bring half of undergrads back to campus

#130

Post by celnardur »

JoshTko wrote: post #109
celnardur wrote: post #99

I feel like I can offer a unique perspective on this because I go to Notre Dame and we are just finishing the first week of classes with everyone back on campus. It's gone alright so far. All the cases so far have been traced back to off campus bars or parties. However, I expect it to get worse soon as cases start spreading on campus. If you want to see how Notre Dame is doing with cases and testing we have a dashboa…

So the only way this would work long term is if students on campus don't go to bars to parties?

Yea pretty much. However, I would extend that to off campus students as well because as soon as someone has a really severe case (or dies) then we will probably all be sent home.

Also it's not just bars or parties. You also have to worry about other gatherings. If people don't where masks and social distance those can become a problem as well. However, so far people have been mostly responsible with other on campus gatherings.

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