Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews • Hacker News Board

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#31

Post by bhousel » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:34 PM UTC

ig1 wrote: post #29

bhousel wrote: post #26

Shameless plug: I built a site to let people borrow and lend Kindle (and soon Nook) books. You can make wishlists of books you want to try out, and hopefully some kind person who owns that book will loan it to you. http://booklends.com Ebook pricing is unfortunate, and a lot of that has more to do with the publishers than with the authors or with Amazon/B&N. The Fifth Witness, mentioned in the CNET article, currently…

Didn't Amazon shut down Lendle for offering such a service?

It was shut down for a few days, but it's back up again.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#32

Post by thalur » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:38 PM UTC

detst wrote: post #14

thalur wrote: post #6

I have no probelem with people leaving 1* reviews without reading the book, just like I have no problem with Amazon removing those reviews (and only those reviews). Yes they are annoying, but they are also one of the few visible ways to protest. While "not buying the book" will probably be effective in the long term, an indivudial non-purchase isn't going to be noticed by anyone. A similar situation to this frequentl…

> I also find the opposite very annoying: when fans rate something as 5* before it's even released. I've received early copies of books with the hope that I would review it early. But I don't often look at Amazon reviews so I don't know if this would fully account for what you're talking about.

I was thinking of reviews along the lines of "I'm sure this will be great. 5*" I'm not sure if I've seen any like that on Amazon though, now that I think about it.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#33

Post by originalgeek » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:40 PM UTC

neutronicus wrote: post #8

Perhaps they should be more honest that this is temporary, "early access" pricing. Perhaps they should say "The Fifth Witness: Electronic Early Access Edition, $15", and promise "The Fifth Witness: Electronic Mass Market Edition, $7". After all, early access is a reasonable thing to charge money for. I also seem to recall reading elsewhere that authors get a much bigger cut of hardback sales than they do of mass mark…

I was thinking the same thing, but it should be more like "Buy now with instant delivery $more" and "Buy now, delivery in 12 months $less". Buyer buys and then ebook is automatically synced to their device at the scheduled time. It would certainly go a long way to silence their critics.

The only problem I see for publishers is they currently enjoy flexibility in their hardcover-to-paperback window. If a book is a blockbuster, I'm sure they extend the window. I suppose they could alter the delivery window on the cheap price, for customers that had not yet locked in the original delivery window and price.

As far as the author's cut, it is time for authors to negotiate different contracts. In 5 years, perhaps less, their hardback bonus is going to be meaningless.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#34

Post by hotlikearobot » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:40 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #23

cletus wrote: post #21

Sadly, Apple is largely to blame for this mess. Well, if you ignore the publishers. Ebooks started as a wholesale pricing model. The publishers would sell them to the likes of Amazon at some fixed price. Amazon would then set their own price. This is very similar to the brick-and-mortar pricing model. In some cases Amazon would sell those books at a loss in an effort to grow the Kindle platform. Publishers didn't lik…

This economic analysis is interesting (seriously!). But it is also facile. Yes, ebooks are worth "less" because they can't be resold. but they may be worth more, and maybe significantly more, because they are much more convenient. Durability, resellability, and convenience are benefits. If you need the first two, you can buy paper. You are not entitled to dictate that convenience can't cost 2x (durability + resellabi…

To be fair, "bombing" review sites is entirely a market action. The market works through information. The most common way that information is disseminated is through prices, but that doesn't mean it is the only way. Reviews, etc, allow one to more accurately decide how to value something.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#35

Post by alsocasey » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:41 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #23

cletus wrote: post #21

Sadly, Apple is largely to blame for this mess. Well, if you ignore the publishers. Ebooks started as a wholesale pricing model. The publishers would sell them to the likes of Amazon at some fixed price. Amazon would then set their own price. This is very similar to the brick-and-mortar pricing model. In some cases Amazon would sell those books at a loss in an effort to grow the Kindle platform. Publishers didn't lik…

This economic analysis is interesting (seriously!). But it is also facile. Yes, ebooks are worth "less" because they can't be resold. but they may be worth more, and maybe significantly more, because they are much more convenient. Durability, resellability, and convenience are benefits. If you need the first two, you can buy paper. You are not entitled to dictate that convenience can't cost 2x (durability + resellabi…

I find it equally facile to rely on the market to set the price when dealing with an industry that has a history of price fixing and collusion...

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#36

Post by alex_c » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:42 PM UTC

Tichy wrote: post #19

larsberg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't gotten any direct numbers from them, but the authors of technical books that I've talked to have told me that your Amazon sales are proportional to the number of reviews, not the rating associated with the product. They claim that just getting more reviews is important and always worth comping review copies to people you know will write a review, even if they are not all 4/5-star reviews. If I had to guess,…

Hm, sounds more likely to me that they got it backwards - if a book is "popular", not as in liked but as in featured in many pop contexts like TV and newspaper reviews, it will also receive more reviews, because more people will have bought it.

Yes and no... just as a single data point, my behavior tends to be to look for the "popular" technical references and choose from those. If a book has a small number of excellent reviews, I probably won't choose that over a book with a large number of average-to-good reviews.

I'm not arguing this is rational, just something I noticed myself doing - if others are the same, I can see a feedback loop where more reviews lead to more purchases.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#37

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:46 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #21

Sadly, Apple is largely to blame for this mess. Well, if you ignore the publishers. Ebooks started as a wholesale pricing model. The publishers would sell them to the likes of Amazon at some fixed price. Amazon would then set their own price. This is very similar to the brick-and-mortar pricing model. In some cases Amazon would sell those books at a loss in an effort to grow the Kindle platform. Publishers didn't lik…

[deleted]

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#38

Post by originalgeek » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:53 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #21

Sadly, Apple is largely to blame for this mess. Well, if you ignore the publishers. Ebooks started as a wholesale pricing model. The publishers would sell them to the likes of Amazon at some fixed price. Amazon would then set their own price. This is very similar to the brick-and-mortar pricing model. In some cases Amazon would sell those books at a loss in an effort to grow the Kindle platform. Publishers didn't lik…

I characterize the view that this is "largely Apple's fault" to be somewhat myopic. Apple responded to a condition in the market, namely, publishers were plenty upset that Amazon used their position as the only viable ebook venue at the time to handcuff publishers to a $9.99 price point.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#39

Post by originalgeek » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:57 PM UTC

hotlikearobot wrote: post #34

tptacek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This economic analysis is interesting (seriously!). But it is also facile. Yes, ebooks are worth "less" because they can't be resold. but they may be worth more, and maybe significantly more, because they are much more convenient. Durability, resellability, and convenience are benefits. If you need the first two, you can buy paper. You are not entitled to dictate that convenience can't cost 2x (durability + resellabi…

To be fair, "bombing" review sites is entirely a market action. The market works through information. The most common way that information is disseminated is through prices, but that doesn't mean it is the only way. Reviews, etc, allow one to more accurately decide how to value something.

I'm not sure whether reviews qualify as a market action; what action comes as a result of a review? It could go either way as the interpretation of the review is up to the reader of the review. It seems that ebooks sales are causing more action than the reviews. And I'll add my anecdote: my view is the negative reviewers don't understand the concept of premium cost for premium access.

Re: Kindle and Nook readers bash high e-book pricing with angry one-star reviews

#40

Post by joshfinnie » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:58 PM UTC

ig1 wrote: post #10

joshfinnie wrote: post #4

What I find funny is that this would have never happened if they charged the standard $9.99 e-book price (which in itself is absolutely too much for e-books). The $5 difference is causing quite a stir which I am sure is not worth it in the long run.

Why is $10 too much for an ebook ? - surely it depends on the value of the content inside it. Valuing a book by it's physical properties is a practice that's gone on for far too long. Lots of technical books are full of "padding" and duplication because no-one will buy a 50 page book which concisely provides the useful information for $10-$20. It waste a huge amount of time both of the author and the readers.

I guess what I meant to say is that $10 is too much for an ebook which is selling significantly cheaper in paperback or slightly more in hardcover. My favorite example of this is Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand: it is $18.99 to buy it for a nook, but $9.99 for the paperback (and as low as $1 used, but that's beyond the argument).