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Why is there only one Snap Store?

merlijn.sebrechts.be

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Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#301

Post by simion314 »

burntsushi wrote: post #197
simion314 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an hypothesis, maybe some Rust apps that can't be compiled with the toolchain in Debian/ubuntu have no pother choice then use snap/flatpack (so maybe at that time in an LTS ditro apt would not have worked)

This isn't it. They just package a version of ripgrep that does compile with their toolchain. ripgrep has been around for almost four years now, and I think the first release was around Rust 1.9 or so. So even Debian will have a new enough version to compile some version of ripgrep. I used to include installation instructions for Ubuntu Snap, but they were so mis-managed (both from the perspective the maintainer of t…

So you claim the package was in Debian and Canonical removed it to replace it with a snap? AFAIK if you want to push your stuff into Ubuntu you are always strongly encouraged by Ubuntu to put your stuff in Debian,

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#302

Post by the_af »

School-Cotton wrote: post #299
Google234 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Mac

Not natively. Docker for Mac is a thing, yes, but it’s just a wrapper around a Linux VM.

Ultimately, you can run Docker on a VM for local development, and of course you'll run it on a Linux server on production. But you don't need Canonical gatekeeping for that...

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#303

Post by the_af »

coldtea wrote: post #252
the_af wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a real problem, but in my opinion unrelated to whether an OS is "ready for the desktop". That's just a business problem, not a technical problem: Adobe cares about platforms where the money is. It's not a technical problem because people like my mom can learn to use GIMP (note: people who use photo editing software are "pros" of a kind, anyway; "regular" users don't know how to edit photos, either) or Krita o…

> That is a real problem, but in my opinion unrelated to whether an OS is "ready for the desktop". That's just a business problem, not a technical problem: Adobe cares about platforms where the money is. Only back in the day part of the idea around "Linux for the Desktop" was that everybody would use the "better" FOSS programs, and not wait for MS/Adobe/Autodesk/Avid/etc. But, as you note, this hasn't happened, and "…

> Only back in the day part of the idea around "Linux for the Desktop" was that everybody would use the "better" FOSS programs, and not wait for MS/Adobe/Autodesk/Avid/etc.

That wasn't really like I and many others envisioned, no. Free software have other benefits that make them "better", not merely technical issues.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#304

Post by NineStarPoint »

the_af wrote: post #215
kunai wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of usability, yes, but the problem with Linux in recent years has rarely been usability, it's the lack of workstation-level applications that are readily available on Windows and MacOS. As long as Linux lacks native support for Autodesk, Adobe CC, Office 365, FL Studio, Pro Tools, etc. and dozens of other niche programs by ISVs it will never approach the mainstream with any sort of widespread appeal. Current…

That seems like a moving goalpost to me. First, it wasn't usable. Then, it didn't have drivers. Then, it crashed a lot. Now it doesn't have Autodesk stuff? For the record, my mom doesn't know what Autodesk is. A "desktop" for me is where you can play movies, edit documents, browse the net and check email.

The problem I see is increasingly that people who want to do the non-professional things lean towards tablets instead of desktops for them. Most people use their “desktops” for work and hobby things where what software can run on them is incredibly important.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#305

Post by burntsushi »

simion314 wrote: post #301
burntsushi wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't it. They just package a version of ripgrep that does compile with their toolchain. ripgrep has been around for almost four years now, and I think the first release was around Rust 1.9 or so. So even Debian will have a new enough version to compile some version of ripgrep. I used to include installation instructions for Ubuntu Snap, but they were so mis-managed (both from the perspective the maintainer of t…

So you claim the package was in Debian and Canonical removed it to replace it with a snap? AFAIK if you want to push your stuff into Ubuntu you are always strongly encouraged by Ubuntu to put your stuff in Debian,

ripgrep has been in Debian and Ubuntu as a non-snap package for quite some time.

> So you claim the package was in Debian and Canonical removed it to replace it with a snap?

No, I don't claim that. I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#306

Post by the_af »

NineStarPoint wrote: post #304
the_af wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a moving goalpost to me. First, it wasn't usable. Then, it didn't have drivers. Then, it crashed a lot. Now it doesn't have Autodesk stuff? For the record, my mom doesn't know what Autodesk is. A "desktop" for me is where you can play movies, edit documents, browse the net and check email.

The problem I see is increasingly that people who want to do the non-professional things lean towards tablets instead of desktops for them. Most people use their “desktops” for work and hobby things where what software can run on them is incredibly important.

Totally! I have to say in this regard, a Linux desktop is very satisfying. I game, watch movies, code, do videoconferencing, print stuff, edit photos, all without much tweaking -- if at all.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#307

Post by the_af »

chillfox wrote: post #236
the_af wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a moving goalpost to me. First, it wasn't usable. Then, it didn't have drivers. Then, it crashed a lot. Now it doesn't have Autodesk stuff? For the record, my mom doesn't know what Autodesk is. A "desktop" for me is where you can play movies, edit documents, browse the net and check email.

Those are just the common stuff that everyone does with a computer, but I think most people ends up adding one special thing to that list. For some that is gaming, others it's doing tax, photo editing, programming, or some specialty software for a niche hobby that few people think about. Even my mum ended up using specialized software software for her knitting hobby.

I'd say you can do almost anything except the specialist software stuff. By specialist I mean "brand stuff"; for example, the problem with a photo editing course is that instead of teaching you the principles, they often teach you how to do stuff in (say) Lightroom, essentially compounding the problem. I understand why they do this -- it cuts corners and assumes a common ground; supporting a multitude of editing software the instructor might not be familiar with would be a nightmare -- but it doesn't help the situation.

If they taught you the principles of editing photos, without using brand specific names, you could do this with GIMP or Krita.

I do hobby stuff with my Linux laptop, by the way :)

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#308

Post by Wowfunhappy »

chillfox wrote: post #236
the_af wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a moving goalpost to me. First, it wasn't usable. Then, it didn't have drivers. Then, it crashed a lot. Now it doesn't have Autodesk stuff? For the record, my mom doesn't know what Autodesk is. A "desktop" for me is where you can play movies, edit documents, browse the net and check email.

Those are just the common stuff that everyone does with a computer, but I think most people ends up adding one special thing to that list. For some that is gaming, others it's doing tax, photo editing, programming, or some specialty software for a niche hobby that few people think about. Even my mum ended up using specialized software software for her knitting hobby.

This is something I don't think enough people consider. There's a very long tail of niche software for niche use cases, and even "casual" computer users are likely to end up needing something from that very large set.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#309

Post by School-Cotton »

the_af wrote: post #302
School-Cotton wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not natively. Docker for Mac is a thing, yes, but it’s just a wrapper around a Linux VM.

Ultimately, you can run Docker on a VM for local development, and of course you'll run it on a Linux server on production. But you don't need Canonical gatekeeping for that...

You can, but it's annoying enough that I switched to Linux at work, even though I prefer macOS as a user.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#310

Post by the_af »

coldtea wrote: post #250
the_af wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a moving goalpost to me. First, it wasn't usable. Then, it didn't have drivers. Then, it crashed a lot. Now it doesn't have Autodesk stuff? For the record, my mom doesn't know what Autodesk is. A "desktop" for me is where you can play movies, edit documents, browse the net and check email.

> That seems like a moving goalpost to me. Reality is a moving goalpost itself. The desktops (Windows, macOS) aren't in some standstill waiting for Linux desktops to catch up. But what you described isn't a "moving goalposts" case anyway. It's problems that need to be solved one after another and which all were initially present as issues. Since at first, it wasn't usable, it wouldn't matter if it has Autodesk apps.…

> the lack of commercial apps is another problem it should work on (when it comes to people's needs)

I think that's a losing proposition. People like me who use Linux have mostly everything they need -- and there really is a lot for the Linux desktop these days. The people who need "commercial apps" are on Windows and MacOS already, and for them, the Linux experience will always be subpar (I'm assuming for them the vast quantities of FOSS are either not enough, or not easy to use). Moving to a "commercial desktop" like Canonical seems to be trying to do will result in a failure and alienate the current userbase who loves Linux for what it is. Attempts at gatekeeping, doubly so... just look at the reactions against every move Canonical does in this direction.

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