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Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

inc.com

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Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#61

Post by krschultz »

ry0ohki wrote: post #55
jasonfried wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But what works there, or at FC, is not a one size fits all answer." Absolutely. I'm simply sharing our experiences with how we run things - that's what my Inc. articles are about. I wouldn't expect anyone else to do what we do because we do it. Find your own comfort zone. There are plenty of ways to do plenty of things.

I really like your approach, especially making everyone manager for a week. I think the only problem I see with it is that if people want to find another job, their 37signals title makes it seem that they essentially "went nowhere". So even if you are paying them a lot more then when they started and they are the best customer service person ever, their resume still says: "Jane Doe - Customer Service Rep 2005-2011" w…

Although they will have had the experience of being a manager (albeit for 1/4 of the time), and having been in both the manager and employee role during the same time period, they probably end up learning more about being a good manager than most people who have the title "Manager". With 4-5 people, I think it makes a lot of sense.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#62

Post by yummyfajitas »

ry0ohki wrote: post #55
jasonfried wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But what works there, or at FC, is not a one size fits all answer." Absolutely. I'm simply sharing our experiences with how we run things - that's what my Inc. articles are about. I wouldn't expect anyone else to do what we do because we do it. Find your own comfort zone. There are plenty of ways to do plenty of things.

I really like your approach, especially making everyone manager for a week. I think the only problem I see with it is that if people want to find another job, their 37signals title makes it seem that they essentially "went nowhere". So even if you are paying them a lot more then when they started and they are the best customer service person ever, their resume still says: "Jane Doe - Customer Service Rep 2005-2011" w…

My company handles this by giving you whatever title you want. When I started, my boss sent me an email: "Give me your full name and title, as you want it to appear on your business cards."

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#63

Post by Murkin »

Appears there are two types of people,

The 37Signal employees: * Like their field and want to be 'hands-on' * Don't mind staying in the same company for 10X years.

The supposed norm: * Prefer to advance to other positions vertically * Like moving between companies (for challenge/change).

Makes me wonder what is the difference between the two types of personalities and how those affect the organization.

For example, is there more or less innovation in 37Signals ? Are people more ready to step up and fix/report problems outside their immediate responsibilities ?

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#64

Post by kenjackson »

Murkin wrote: post #63

Appears there are two types of people, The 37Signal employees: * Like their field and want to be 'hands-on' * Don't mind staying in the same company for 10X years. The supposed norm: * Prefer to advance to other positions vertically * Like moving between companies (for challenge/change). Makes me wonder what is the difference between the two types of personalities and how those affect the organization. For example, i…

I don't think there's really a difference in employees. Everyone reacts to incentives, and it sounds like 37signals has removed titles with pay. Which honestly, I'd much prefer. In many ways titles are a substitute for flat pay.

I'd rather have a flat org (and no titles) with wildly different pay (and extreme bonuses, profit sharing, equity grants) -- rather than relatively flat pay and lots of titles (which tends to be the norm in industry).

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#65

Post by mediamaker »

jasonfried wrote: post #31
mhp wrote: post #12

Fog Creek and 37Signals are probably more alike than either of us would care to admit (ha!) and I could see Joel writing a very similar article a few years ago when we had 20some people at the company. But what works there, or at FC, is not a one size fits all answer. Having managers when there are 10 people are at your company makes no sense. The hierarchy starts out flat, you add a few more people and you're at 20,…

"But what works there, or at FC, is not a one size fits all answer." Absolutely. I'm simply sharing our experiences with how we run things - that's what my Inc. articles are about. I wouldn't expect anyone else to do what we do because we do it. Find your own comfort zone. There are plenty of ways to do plenty of things.

I also appreciate the perspective. Next time I'm asked if I've managed people I plan to say 'I manage projects, I collaborate with people.'

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#67

Post by mmcconnell1618 »

arctangent wrote: post #17
mmcconnell1618 wrote: post #6

I believe some sociologists found that personal relationships begin to break down at about 150. Beyond that it is very difficult to maintain meaningful interaction in person. Online relationship numbers are much higher so maybe a distributed team like 37Signals can get away with this for a while longer.

You're referring to Dunbar's Number: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

Thanks for the concrete link! I never knew the name.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#68

Post by hdctambien »

dugmartin wrote: post #30
dude_abides wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what he is essentially saying is, they're an anarcho-syndicalist commune, taking it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week, and all the decision of that officer must be approved at a bi-weekly meeting by a two-thirds majority.

There is some lovely muck over here.

Is this getting downvoted because people didn't catch the Monty Python joke? Or because they didn't like this specific reference (but accept the parent's reference)?

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#69

Post by hapless »

"The fairest rules are those to which everyone would agree if they did not know how much power they would have."

This quote really, deeply bothered me. One of the major differences between alpha males and the rest of the population is that they will always assume they'll end up in the top spot. Your prototypical alpha male won't even consider the odds of being on the bottom in that lottery.

To push it further, those same aggressive types will have the passion and voice to draw support for their views, no matter the substance. A "flat" structure overvalues the opinions of the loud and aggressive, with little room for more pensive contributors, especially women.

In other words, if you leave the authorship of the social contract to the loudest people, you may end up with a rather oppressive outcome. This is a universal rule, often overlooked by the alpha males who spend their time talking to Inc. Magazine.

Re: Jason Fried: Why I Run a Flat Company

#70

Post by imbriaco »

I was one of those experiments, as the Operations Manager, and I like to think it went pretty well. As many people here have rightly pointed out, though, being hands-on is the key. I continued to do a lot of the day-to-day technical work.

The main difference between what I did, and what the rest of my team did, was that I had the added responsibility for dealing with partners and vendors, negotiating contracts, scheduling hardware installations, and the like. The rest of the team was able to remain completely focused on the system administration issues that we cared about while I split my time.

For our team, it made good sense. For the other development/design teams, the way they're run makes sense. It all depends on context.

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