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German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

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Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#71
post #19

> N26's co-founders Valentin Stalf and Maximilian Tayenthal have argued for an alternative, saying they believe the traditional German works council excludes international employees This is patently false. I work at a medium-sized startup in Berlin, which is very international, with many of my colleagues speaking little German. We have recently created a Works Council (with support from the management) - and the coun…

I think they meant "international employees" as in "employees of non-german N26 Subsidiaries", not "non-german speaking employees of german-N26 entities". Which, of course, is also a laughably bad argument, since there's nothing that prevents N26 from voluntarily granting those employees similar protections they'd enjoy if they were employed in Germany.

> there's nothing that prevents N26 from voluntarily granting those employees similar protections they'd enjoy if they were employed in Germany.

That sounds like a two-tier system to me. Inside-Germany employees having a say (backed by formal power) on their priorities; outside-Germany employees having no say.

A works council, like a union, does not always act unambiguously in the interests of all the employees. It's not that clear cut, because issues are complicated. What is good for some employees is bad for others.

If N26 decided to grant outside-Germany employees similar protections as inside-Germany, would the outside-Germany employees have an equal say and equal right to vote on what they want, or would only the inside-Germany employees actually be represented because the formal process is limited to just them?

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#72
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is "startup" defined by "oppertunity to win shares"? And even if, equity is typically sold as a replacement for lower salary compared to expectations, not as a replacement for workers rights.

I think an American reader would expect a startup to almost always offer equity, but it's a language/culture-issue. In English: startup, the: Early stage company with allegedly high growth potential offering equity instead of cash, based on the idea that will be a good deal if it really takes off. In German: Startup, das: Small tech-company, usually Berlin-based, hipster culture, offering coolness and alleged skill d…

It's also a stages thing. Early employees is one thing, at 1500 employees though? For all employees?

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#74
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home ownership in the Netherlands is 69% vs 65% in the USA. Also the taxes actually pay for things like a public health system and police that have enough training to adopt a "talk first" strategy vs the "shoot first" strategy that seems to be so common in the states.

Interesting, my experience is from Germany where it's much lower, barely breaking 50%. As I mentioned: it might still be worth it, but I really dislike this whole style of "look, everything is the same, only we have X, Y and Z". It's not, there are trade-offs. If somebody likes those trade-offs (e.g. better job security for lower compensation), then they'll prefer it that way, and that's completely valid. But to pret…

Germany is famously a bit of a European outlier over renting vs ownership: https://qz.com/167887/germany-has-one-of-the-worlds-lowest-h...

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#76

> N26 has filed another restraining order to prevent today's Electoral Board Selection for N26 GmbH, this time against the union ver.di. As such, IG Metall has stepped in to chair today's meeting. It will take place at the same venue, with the time delayed so people can make it. -- https://twitter.com/worker291/status/1294183659583369216 ver.di and IG Metall are Germanys two biggest unions.

My goodness, this is detrimental for their image ...

Indeed, it's fascinating to watch. Reputation matters for a bank and they are in the process of completely destroying it.

Quite frankly I doubt it's possible to recover from that without removing the founders (currently acting as CEO and CFO) from the company.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#77
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no difference regarding firing wether it is a permanent or temporary contract. In particular circumstances, you have more security with a temporary contract. Disclaimer : I am Dutch.

I don't agree. Contractors are the first to go, followed by temporary employees. It is much easier for companies to let temporary contracts expire than start the actual process to get permission to fire employees.

You are shifting goalposts. Firing != expiring.

If you want to fire someone on a temporary contract, you will have to pay him off.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#78

Overall pretty exaggerated. N26 is against a worker's council, but they are not preventing the employees to form one, and will accept their decision.

> [...]they are not preventing the employees to form one, and will accept their decision.

That would be a crime in Germany, you can go to prison for and they are actually very very close to crossing that line, if they haven't already overstepped it.

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#79
post #71
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant "international employees" as in "employees of non-german N26 Subsidiaries", not "non-german speaking employees of german-N26 entities". Which, of course, is also a laughably bad argument, since there's nothing that prevents N26 from voluntarily granting those employees similar protections they'd enjoy if they were employed in Germany.

> there's nothing that prevents N26 from voluntarily granting those employees similar protections they'd enjoy if they were employed in Germany. That sounds like a two-tier system to me. Inside-Germany employees having a say (backed by formal power) on their priorities; outside-Germany employees having no say. A works council, like a union, does not always act unambiguously in the interests of all the employees. It's…

It would be possible to structure codetermination in a legally binding way that employees no matter where in the world have the exact same rights (barring laws in other countries restricting such a thing). As that goes beyond what German law requires most companies would probably not agree to that but it clearly shows how hollow the statements of management in this case are.

(It should be noted that the relevant German law considers "Betriebe" and "Betriebsteile" as the unit where employees are represented, so each individual location of a company is usually considered separate and employees at one location have almost no say regarding employees in other locations. In that way, the lawmakers had the same thought process as you)

Re: German digital bank N26 is facing outcry from its staff over management

#80
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That doesn’t really change that I’m currently still too scared to actually form one at the company I work for, even though I would very much like for it to exist. It still feels like painting a target on your back, even though Germany does not have at-will employment and you certainly cannot be fired or blocked or even just so much as reprimanded for wanting a form a Worker Council. If there's one good thing that's…

> I hope it's bringing more awareness to the fact that "Betriebsräte" are even a thing that exists Isn't it common knowledge? 40% of employees work in companies with a worker council, it's pretty much the default for large enterprises. I think it's pretty accurate regarding career effect. Worker Council members are generally much more union-involved, which employers obviously don't like too much. On the other hand: a…

Not really, one of my previous employers I think they considered many times to have made a big mistake getting into German market, as we had to continuously remind them of German work laws.
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