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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#941

Post by whywhywhywhy »

imtringued wrote: post #809
asien wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats already the case , it’s Windows S. But you have the choice between regular Windows and Locked down version.

Not on ARM. There you only have a choice between Microsoft store apps or emulated x86 applications. You're not going to use Firefox on Windows on ARM unless you download the x86 version which will perform very poorly.

Not true here is the download to the exe for Windows Firefox ARM build. Took me 10 seconds to Google it....

https://download-installer.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/relea...

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#942

Post by kwanbix »

Razengan wrote: post #915
alkonaut wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they do a lot to curtail scummy developer practices. Which is excellent. Apple taking a cut for apps I have no problem with. They have support, I trust them with privacy/security and so on. That costs money. The interesting discussion is how much apple can claim to own a part of profits made in the apps, by selling content (in-app purchases). On one hand: if a game is free for a trial, and you can unlock the full g…

> if I buy a recipe app for $10 and then recipes for $1 a piece which I could also buy on the corresponding website, then I don't think apple should have a cut at all. Ah that sounds like a fair point at first, but it could be argued that you gained access to those sales because of Apple. More importantly, they're processing payments for you, and every payment processor out there takes a cut, one way or the other.

So if I use windows does that mean that every app dev must pay 30% to Ms because you can argue that I am using their apps thanks to Microsoft. And hey, why don't we also pay Intel or and, who did the processors?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#943

Post by DoubleGlazing »

jalfresi wrote: post #913
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

What nonsense. As an Apple customer, the App store is the number one reason I use them - I dont want malware or scummy developers on my phone and I am happy with Apple charging a fee to developers in this manner. It's not like anyone going to switch phones because your app is not on there. Your app is just one of many other apps I use on my phone. Developers are very much looking at this the wrong way - the 30% fee i…

But what if an Apple customer wants to deal with a developer directly? Apple wont allow me to do that even though I own the device.

That's my bugbear with Apple, If I own a iPhone I should be able to install software from any source - even if it is risky.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#944

Post by donkeyd »

fastball wrote: post #900
donkeyd wrote: post #898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks like a great analogy, but it isn't. The app is still running on an Apple platform, with updates going through Apple infrastructure. It's a completely different situation. Don't get me wrong, this statement isn't in support of Apple, I'm just saying that your analogy is bad.

The analogy holds. If I need a replacement part for my Nespresso (app updates) and I order that on Amazon, then Amazon gets their cut for facilitating and fulfilling the delivery of this replacement part. That's reasonable, because you are taking some portion of proceeds from a transaction that you have a hand in . What is not reasonable is for Apple to take a cut from transactions that do not need to involve them. I…

I explicitly stated that I wasn't siding with Apple, because I expected exactly this response. Your analogy can be bad without you being wrong in your opinion.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#945

Post by Humdeee »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #940
fastball wrote: post #839

To everyone that is supporting Apple's position, let me run this hypothetical by you: You buy a Nespresso machine on Amazon. Some amount of the purchase price goes to Amazon for facilitating the transaction and delivering it to you, some goes to Nespresso for actually making the device. Cool. Then you get a pod subscription from Nespresso – let's say there is a touch screen on the coffee machine itself where you ente…

Why isn't your landlord getting a cut of those pod sales? I mean they're providing the foundations and the kitchen counter the Nespresso is standing on, without your landlords foundations you wouldn't even be able to plug it in.

Yep, a big part of that analogy is missing. Just like that, the analogy completely falls apart

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#946

Post by romanoderoma »

xondono wrote: post #909

I’ve seen a lot of comments similar to “I don’t understand how users can be in favor of this”. I’m not just in favor, I love that they do that. Yes, for the small percentage of the population that knows what’s doing (which nicely overlaps with HN), having freedom to install whatever you choose is great. For >90% of the population it isn’t. Even with all of the improvements Windows has seen, for me it’s still a regula…

That's not true.

Being limited in what you can do with your properties is never a blessing.

Hammers are dangerous yet they are sold in supermarkets.

Hell, in US even guns are sold in supermarkets so that kids can kill other kids at school and nobody stops them and we are arguing about installing apps on a phone?

Apple could make it clear that it's risky and that would be it.

The rhetoric of the "old parents that can't help themselves" is wrong and most of all agist.

There's no risk of them installing dodgy apps, because they usually don't install new apps.

My mom doesn't even know how to change time on her phone but she's smart enough to not break what's working.

I installed WhatsApp on her phone and that's all she needed, there's no way she could install something bad by chance and she's on Android, according to the Apple fanboys she should be running around with a virus bomb in her purse.

Guess what?

She's completely fine.

Another important point is that Apple is not competing with Android, Apple is competing with other smartphone producers.

Apple is a monopolyst because it locks users in, you can't change OS on your phone, you can't install iOs on other brands, you can't move your apps and data from iOs to Android, while the contrary is pretty straightforward.

You can't even use the web freely, because alternative browsers are forbidden on Apple Store.

Apple is not competing in a free market, Apple is making impossible to switch to competitors and thanks to this lock they can charge any amount they want.

I'm old enough to remember MS being bashed for proposing the TwC (trustworthy computing) in 2002 and now I have to watch people kneeling in front of the richest company around just because they don't want to help their parents?

That must be a new low for our society.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#947

Post by dustinmoris »

erostrate wrote: post #857
dustinmoris wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I would argue that consumers should have a legal right to install whatever software they wish on a product they have purchased, including onto the bundled operating system I fundamentally disagree and this is also a misrepresentation of the current situation. If I buy an open operating system which advertises that I can run on it what pleases me then I should have the right to carry out this freedom of…

This argument works as long as there is healthy competition, so that consumer's preferences get reflected in the offer. If the market is a monopoly or duopoly you could get very undesirable outcomes.

The point is unlike a real monopoly which is due to real entry barriers (e.g. train operators need train tracks, internet companies need cables, phone operators need antennas and satellites, etc.) the mobile OS isn't a monopoly or duopoly. Neither Apple or Android were ever the only mobile OS providers. There was Microsoft over a long period of time, Blackberry, Nokias own operating system and many other smaller ones. Neither Apple or Google have any advantage which Microsoft or Nokia didn't have either in consumer base and market share of mobile phones. Same for Blackberry. The only difference is that consumers have actively rejected the competition because Apple (and Google) exactly delivers what they want.

Now arguing that consumers are disadvantaged because they don't get what they want is falsifying the actual state of the market, when really they get exactly what they want and it's only some bad actors like addictive abusive gaming companies or other dodgy businesses which are doing more harm than help to our society and they want to force Apple or Google into opening more up to allow them even shadier practices.

Nothing stops anyone to create a more open mobile OS. There is no actual barrier to enter like in what real monopolies or duopolies have.

EDIT:

It's also important to remember that Apple hasn't invented their strict walled garden after Microsoft, Nokia and Blackberry left the competition. They always had their walled garden as a feature, and that is proof that customers actively chose to use Apple despite having a healthy competition of other open marketplaces, which clearly didn't deliver what consumers wanted. Consumers don't have the time to vet everything themselves. They value Apple's proposition and are even willing to pay more for an app on average than on any other mobile system. People change their phones every 1-2 years and if the walled garden wouldn't appeal to consumers then we'd see everyone have an Android by now for a very long time.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#948

Post by rini17 »

dustinmoris wrote: post #947
erostrate wrote: post #857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument works as long as there is healthy competition, so that consumer's preferences get reflected in the offer. If the market is a monopoly or duopoly you could get very undesirable outcomes.

The point is unlike a real monopoly which is due to real entry barriers (e.g. train operators need train tracks, internet companies need cables, phone operators need antennas and satellites, etc.) the mobile OS isn't a monopoly or duopoly. Neither Apple or Android were ever the only mobile OS providers. There was Microsoft over a long period of time, Blackberry, Nokias own operating system and many other smaller ones…

So you say: if Apple rejects your app, just ask users to reinstall another OS or buy another device?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#949

Post by tauwauwau »

jalfresi wrote: post #922
mapcars wrote: post #878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is against freedom like since the beginning, I don't understand how anybody can use any of their products.

Maybe because historically the developer industry has shown that some bad actors can ruin it for everyone? That maybe the App store review process is to benefit ME, as an Apple customer? I WANT a curated App store, simply because I? CANT trust any random app downloaded onto my phone. I pay Apple for that service. Apple App Store customers are NOT blind sheeple afraid of freedom; I am NOT interested in having a phone…

Believe me, we got it.

All developers are scummy and trying to make a living without paying 30% of your earnings to the platform is just too much to ask.

Even though YOU purchased the device YOU don't want to be able to run any and all applications, even when YOU might really really want to, full stop. Apple should own what YOU can do on your device, and since YOU said it, EVERYONE should just agree to it.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#950

Post by danShumway »

gwd wrote: post #730
danShumway wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice. As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I do…

> How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? The key thing to me is supporting Apple's ecosystem. That ecosystem doesn't come out of nowhere; it's supported by the Apple Tax. If Apple can't collect that tax, they have to either reduce the quality of the ecosystem, or look for revenue elsewhere, like selling your data or obsoleting older models faster.

> the Apple Tax.

Is that why iPhones are famously cheaper than most other options on the market, and why Apple is constantly launching so many entry-level budget options for lower-income families?

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