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Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

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Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#261

Post by nico_h »

staplers wrote: post #85
birken wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another way to think about it is, what do we do if we learn that the pandemic will not end for the next 10 years? What activities do we allow and under what new mode of operation / conditions? Then we'd actually put real effort into controlling it so we could go back to life as normal even with the virus not fully eradicated. The problem with all of these simple "risk profile" analyses is that we as a country are b…

You can see the death rate dropping while cases are dramatically going up which one could argue is that exact mitigation happening. Masks, sanitation, and distance have likely lowered the overall viral load even if one does contract it. Obviously higher testing rates contribute to the decreasing death rate but given the blind studies from asia I don't think it would be that drastic of a reduction. It gives me some ho…

The big question marks are "Long COVID", which I haven't seen mentioned about kids (so, good news?), and ADE reaction (Antibody Dependent Enhancement , of the virus) which we'll see in the second wave, when people get re-infected.

Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#262

Post by WalterBright »

jchw wrote: post #258
WalterBright wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they? Nobody seems to care much about the ordinary flu, though lots still die from it. Hospital acquired infections are a major cause of death, but few worry about that. The most likely causes of death for children are drowning and car accidents, but people worry far more about terrorist incidents. And on it goes.

We know how to deal with the flu. Healthy people do not normally die from it. COVID-19 is on pace to put a million people in the ground by the end of the year (IIRC) and certainly leave many survivors with serious health problems, and we really still know very little about treating it, and it is more contagious and more deadly, especially to the healthy population. We are past “it’s just a flu.”

> We know how to deal with the flu.

Not really. We just are used to it. 12,000 to 61,000 US deaths per year over the last decade. This adds up year after year.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html#:~:text=Whil....

I'm not dismissing covid as "just a flu". I'm pointing out that people dismiss the annual deaths from the flu. For example, few people take any particular steps to minimize transmission of the flu, like wearing a mask or keeping their kids out of school.

Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#263

Post by jchw »

WalterBright wrote: post #262
jchw wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know how to deal with the flu. Healthy people do not normally die from it. COVID-19 is on pace to put a million people in the ground by the end of the year (IIRC) and certainly leave many survivors with serious health problems, and we really still know very little about treating it, and it is more contagious and more deadly, especially to the healthy population. We are past “it’s just a flu.”

> We know how to deal with the flu. Not really. We just are used to it. 12,000 to 61,000 US deaths per year over the last decade. This adds up year after year. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html#:~:text=Whil... . I'm not dismissing covid as "just a flu". I'm pointing out that people dismiss the annual deaths from the flu. For example, few people take any particular steps to minimize transmission of the f…

Again. You can treat the flu. 40k of those deaths are in the elderly. Probably more are people who are already sick. Not only is COVID not the flu, there’s basically no comparison.

Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#264

Post by WalterBright »

jchw wrote: post #263
WalterBright wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We know how to deal with the flu. Not really. We just are used to it. 12,000 to 61,000 US deaths per year over the last decade. This adds up year after year. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html#:~:text=Whil... . I'm not dismissing covid as "just a flu". I'm pointing out that people dismiss the annual deaths from the flu. For example, few people take any particular steps to minimize transmission of the f…

Again. You can treat the flu. 40k of those deaths are in the elderly. Probably more are people who are already sick. Not only is COVID not the flu, there’s basically no comparison.

> there’s basically no comparison.

Dismissing the annual death toll of the flu as not a real problem is what my point was. We're used to flu deaths, they aren't news. But several tens of thousands in the US still die of the flu every year. It is not a solved problem, the vaccine is only partially effective, and most people don't even get one.

Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#265

Post by roody15 »

The goal has shifted. The lockdowns and extreme shutdowns were in an effort to keep hospital resources from becoming overridden thus causing even more death.

The new goal of attempting to prevent the actual transmission of the disease itself has been disastrous.

Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#266

Post by ketamine__ »

jacquesm wrote: post #259
ketamine__ wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Zealand had what you might call a timely response. If you test positive now your entire family will be moved to an isolation facility. It is not optional and if you refuse to do so you will be arrested. > Bloomfield announced all of those who tested positive, as well as close family members who could be at risk, would now be put into self-isolation facilities. > Bloomfield said they'd given moving confirmed cases…

Of course I'm concerned. But if you think that you'll be able to manage this without some inconvenience then that is a pretty strong delusion. Think about the alternative: no quarantine, unchecked spread, lots of people dead. If there is one country that is doing this by the book it is NZ, and they should be commended for it. That you try to spin that as a negative is quite a feat. I've been quarantined myself for tw…

You're right. There may not be a way to manage this without locking people up and curtailing their rights. I'm not interested in doing that because this virus isn't the destruction of civilization. It doesn't effect 99.9% of people.

Your "by the book" is more like "at any cost." Why not just come out and say that you support draconian and authoritarian measures?

Your quarantine isn't comparable to forced isolation in a facility, right? Surely you can understand how that might damage a child?

Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#267

Post by gjs278 »

fapjacks wrote: post #214
gjs278 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then we'd actually put real effort into controlling it so we could go back to life as normal even with the virus not fully eradicated. ok now imagine the virus lives on surfaces for 5+ years and never dies. now what? you can’t eradicate this virus by quarantining, someone, and it only takes one, is going to spread it somehow. now answer with that in mind. “we would just fix it” is a cop out, we can’t fix it.

Your comments are all dead and I vouched for this one, but it's clear from your comment history why. Nobody likes reading "angry programmer" comments here because you're just not special around here, so nobody has to bear the cost of your malice in order to divine the meaning behind your words. "Shut the fuck up" and "delete your account" are really intolerable, stupid ass comments for HN, and if your response to thi…

thanks for the vouch!

Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#268

Post by eirini1 »

mikem170 wrote: post #232
eirini1 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is not people who are worried about their finances - that is understandable. The problem is people who want to put finances over covid, mostly because covid requires certain measures in order to be eradicated (objectively) whereas an economy can (at the very least temporarily) be switched to a mode where people do not have to worry about their finances (such as UBI or a command economy). What makes at lea…

>mostly because covid requires certain measures in order to be eradicated I thought we were flattening the curve... What makes you think this can be eradicated? Source?

If a virus cannot transmit itself at all it will eventually die off completely as it cannot reproduce.

Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#269

Post by heavyset_go »

solaceb wrote: post #207
cmurf wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't only the government, it's a significant minority of the population nationally; and at a local level it can approach significant majority. A Marion County Florida Sheriff ordered that staff and visitors to his office cannot wear masks. That order is uncivilized behavior. The state governor should have removed him from power. People speeding on roads get sanctioned more, for being less of a menace to society.…

You've touched on exactly what worries me most about the Trump era. Somehow, unnecessary combativeness and flamboyant disagreement has come to be valued in and of itself. As if somehow anyone wins by acting childishly.

It's conservative virtue signalling.

Re: Parents are 5X as Worried about Infection and School than Work and Paying Bills

#270

Post by thu2111 »

schemy wrote: post #195
spaced-out wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you care about the economy, the best thing we (the US) can do is follow the lead of other countries that have gotten this under control with evidence-based measures, and push the government to provide support to those in need, so the economy can bounce back quickly, rather than sliding into depression.

New Zealand has just had to quarantine 1/3 of their population, again, because of 4 cases. Until the virus is contained everywhere you will yo-yo between closing everything and opening it. Unless we build a wall around every developing country this will be going on for years. The economy can bounce back from one quarantine, can it bounce back from 12?

They didn't "have" to do that and most places aren't yoyoing around, they're over it already and bumping along the noise floor of cases.

NZ leadership has chosen this illogical and self-destructive path because they don't understand risk or data or, apparently, economics.

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