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Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

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Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#151

Post by [deleted] »

Filligree wrote: post #93
kev009 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time you subtract all the sub-prime performance from their vulnerabilities, this isn't actually true on properly patched operating systems. They took a sub-prime loan on validation, sacrificing security in the process, and the result is chips marketed and sold as something they are not. There really should be government-level lawsuit and restructuring at intel right now.

It's worse, isn't it? From what I've heard, Intel likes to run their benchmarks with many (most?) mitigations disabled... but Windows ships with all of them enabled.

[deleted]

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#152

Post by timothyduong »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #107
dahfizz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. As opposed to the people who used to use their computer for email and spread sheets? I would argue that the resource needs of a web browser has absolutely been increasing over time. The 4GB of RAM in that old laptop just does not work for the modern web. And considering how many web site now require the client to run tons an…

> The 4GB of RAM in that old laptop just does not work for the modern web Completely false, I'm on 4GB RAM and Q9300. I haven't had any issues. 99% of websites run smooth. I even code on this machine. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24145436 EDIT: I have 10 tabs open right now in Firefox. From bbc.com, HackerNews, and Zillow. I also have AnyDesk, Slack, Signal, VSCode, and a couple of other…

If only 4GB of RAM would suffice on my Windows 10 SOE. That thing has 20GB of RAM And a 2018 i5 and still struggles. MS SCCM and all the other 'protection' destroys any ability to be productive.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#153

Post by nimish »

Symmetry wrote: post #38
nimish wrote: post #19

Intel advertised a bunch of fancy transistors and process improvements well after it was clear 10nm as a whole was a bust (COAG, Single Diffusion Break, probably more) Color me skeptical.

Charlie, the arch Intel skeptic, was convinced and if he thinks they managed to fix their problems with 10nm I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. https://semiaccurate.com/2020/08/13/intel-talks-about-10nm-s...

I'll believe it when I can finally buy 10nm at retail in volume.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#154

Post by lhl »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #102
richthegeek wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first CPU at age ~8 was a Pentium Pro, followed by a Pentium II. That was the last Intel CPU I ever owned. I stuck on an FX8350 for a while, and it was never the bottleneck for gaming performane compared to the GPU. For a non-enthusiast, AMD has been a great choice almost for my whole life.

I've gone back and forth over the last 3 decades. My dad has been an employee at Intel since 1995, so I started with the original Pentium and basically upgraded my CPU every year from the 90s to the mid 2000s. I don't engage in fanboyism, I just like to have the best bang for my buck. So I've had a few opportunities to try AMD CPUs - mainly the Athlon series (Thunderbird, XP, and 64 series). My biggest issue with the…

For laptops this generation (Intel Ice Lake vs AMD Renoir), there are now several reviews of the "same" laptop chassis with both versions:

Lenovo IdeaPad S540-13: https://next.lab501.ro/notebook/english-lenovo-ideapad-s540-...

Lenovo ThinkPad 14s: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14s-Review-Bu...

XMG Gaming Laptop comparison: https://www.techspot.com/review/2075-same-laptop-different-c...

TLDR: AMD significantly outperforms Intel in absolute performance and performance per watt; battery life is about equal - depends on implementation and how its measured (Intel is still a little better on idle, video playback, but much worse under load), temps usually limited by laptop's thermal solution, but under high TDP, favors AMD.

The Tiger Lake U chips should be pretty competitive with Renoir at 15W, especially as there are almost no AMD options paired with 16:10 or HiDPI displays - we'll have to see when they come out. Tiger Lake H isn't expected until Q1 2021 and will have to compete with Cezanne (Zen 3 core, which is expected to have some pretty big IPC gains).

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#155

Post by thu2111 »

coreblocks wrote: post #142
kev009 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time you subtract all the sub-prime performance from their vulnerabilities, this isn't actually true on properly patched operating systems. They took a sub-prime loan on validation, sacrificing security in the process, and the result is chips marketed and sold as something they are not. There really should be government-level lawsuit and restructuring at intel right now.

I have a feeling we will see a bunch of AMD vulnerabilities revealed in the coming years. Researchers haven’t really had time to study AMD’s micro architecture yet and it was not really a priority because of low penetration in the server market. In theory intel should have less bugs since they have massive design verification teams.

Yes, the idea AMD is more secure than Intel is mostly a myth. AMD was less aggressively optimised than Intel but AMD didn't know about side channel attacks either and would have eventually ended up with the same techniques.

Meanwhile, we can compare the security track record of SEV vs SGX to see some real meat. SEV has been cracked completely and repeatedly by simple C or cryptography programming errors like buffer overflows or not checking for points being on the curve. SGX has had no such errors, every single attack on it has been an exotic statistical side channel attack. The last round weren't even practical. Researchers studied it for a year and couldn't actually make it work against real enclaves, but Intel issued CVEs and mitigations for it anyway, just in case. And the root level of SGX was never cracked, which is why it's always been software patchable/renewable without needing new silicon. AMD SEV has needed new silicon more than once.

SGX has held up pretty well given it was born just before the discovery of an entire class of CPU design vulnerabilities.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#156

Post by Wandfarbe »

derefr wrote: post #69
Wandfarbe wrote: post #59

When i read comments here i'm wondering how and why people are either for or against intel? IF i need to upgrade, i will check the current situation and will buy the best cpu in comparison to my needs and price. If it means that i need tons of core because of my workload i might choose a threadripper. Do i need to compile often and i know a specific intel cpu will save me ton of time waiting but it costs more? Fine.…

When you're a business, you can't make turn-on-a-dime decisions like that. You commit to business-equipment purchase/leasing/upgrade agreements with a particular OEM; who in turn usually commits (for economy-of-scale reasons) to one CPU supplier or the other. So, if you're stuck with an OEM who's in turn stuck with "the wrong" CPU supplier (right now Intel), that can make you cross, at the potential performance that'…

I had a time in my life where the price of a motherboard mattered. But you can't tell me, that most comments here on HN are from poor students which will not be able to afford a new CPU+Mainboard after 4 years or so.

I have not had this issue to be honest, i just switch both if required. Especially with PCI4 etc. its often enough critical to upgrade after a while and i did sell my old motherboard and cpu combi. That should reduce the 'in my opinion overstated risk' of wasting your old mainboard.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#157

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

lhl wrote: post #154
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gone back and forth over the last 3 decades. My dad has been an employee at Intel since 1995, so I started with the original Pentium and basically upgraded my CPU every year from the 90s to the mid 2000s. I don't engage in fanboyism, I just like to have the best bang for my buck. So I've had a few opportunities to try AMD CPUs - mainly the Athlon series (Thunderbird, XP, and 64 series). My biggest issue with the…

For laptops this generation (Intel Ice Lake vs AMD Renoir), there are now several reviews of the "same" laptop chassis with both versions: Lenovo IdeaPad S540-13: https://next.lab501.ro/notebook/english-lenovo-ideapad-s540-... Lenovo ThinkPad 14s: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14s-Review-Bu... XMG Gaming Laptop comparison: https://www.techspot.com/review/2075-same-laptop-different-c... TLDR: AMD sign…

Awesome, that's very useful info. Thanks for taking the time to link these and elaborate on the data

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#158

Post by rbanffy »

stagger87 wrote: post #54
dahfizz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. As opposed to the people who used to use their computer for email and spread sheets? I would argue that the resource needs of a web browser has absolutely been increasing over time. The 4GB of RAM in that old laptop just does not work for the modern web. And considering how many web site now require the client to run tons an…

4GB of RAM on a machine (regardless of OS) is absolutely fine for browsing the "modern web".

Maybe, if you have only one tab open

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#159

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

013a wrote: post #68
xyst wrote: post #2

I won't be buying Intel CPUs for years to come. Haven't upgraded since 2016. Years of "incremental" improvements while still advertising $1000+ CPU prices has deterred me for quite some time. Intel fanboys might eat it up though. Given their history of significant delays in the current roadmap, how does this compare to their competition who is quickly advancing on 10nm? Also what is this internal naming schema? > The…

Intel's CPUs today are still king when it comes to single-thread workloads, like gaming. The main difference in the past two years has been that AMD has taken the lead in multi-thread performance, and that's scared Intel so much that they've significantly improved multi-thread performance and price across the board. The difference is quite stark, in both directions [1]: AMD destroys Intel in anything that benefits fr…

> single-thread workloads, like gaming.

Most games these days have multi-thread heavy workloads. Gaming hasn't been single-thread dominant for AAA titles for a while.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#160

Post by paulpan »

IanCutress wrote: post #146
paulpan wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditionally Intel's "nm" measurements have always deviated a bit from their competitors, ala TSMC and Samsung. In short Intel 10nm ~ TSMC 7nm and Intel 7nm ~ TSMC 5nm. But with the recent announcement that the 7nm will be delayed, it means TSMC will for sure take the node crown. https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/7_nm_lithography_process I think the most notable is part is that Tiger Lake will be a minimal CPU improvemen…

>'Superfin seems to be marketing hype' Superfin is the main reason why Tiger Lake is getting a 10-20% frequency boost over Ice Lake. That SuperMIM cap isn't just for show.

Oh snap you're Ian Cutress from Anandtech!

Point taken, mine is that SuperFin isn't some node improvement so TBD on what performance gains it accounts for.

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