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Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

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Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#131

Post by sergeykish »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #67

I don't find it particularly interesting to argue over whether Google and/or Apple or Goople are monopolies/duopolies. I think however it is obvious that something has seriously pathologically gone wrong in the mobile software market and these two companies are behind it. I also don't think that appeals to "is that legal" are all that satisfying -- (Apple's free speech lets them silence whoever they wish, of course)…

Microsoft is good these days. Was it because they were not right? Some people established a common ground? Maybe regulations?

No, its business was cannibalized by open source - OS by Linux, browser by Mozilla, native software by web applications, shrinking server installations, outflow of developers. And now they are good.

Apple closed this route with proprietary hardware and walled garden.

---

Was duopoly any different on desktop?

- Apple OS X, Microsoft Windows, custom Windows builds, Linux, BSD, etc

- Apple iOS, Google Android, custom Android builds, postmarketOS, Ubuntu Touch, etc

You can't run Apple OS on generic desktop. Hardware support varies if it is not Windows - good on Linux, worse on BSD, but Plan 9? Haiku OS?

Software support is number 1 reason people stick to Windows. Linux and BSD has essentials covered - editors, browser, office. No modern browser on Plan 9, some run it on remote host, some live without it.

Microsoft (at its height) pushing OEMs, proprietary API, changing storage formats. Apple pushing proprietary hardware, API, closing ecosystem. If you play by their rules you support their decisions.

The only thing that matters is voting with your feet. There is alternative today - PinePhone and Librem 5 has open source drivers (support as long as you wish) [1], LineageOS, F-Droid, postmarketOS, Ubuntu Touch. It is not as polished but you can't have both (at least yet).

[1] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices

Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#132

Post by krono »

vvanders wrote: post #11
gok wrote: post #3

"Google prohibitions on bloatware hurt bloatware deal, claims bloatware vendor"

I'm trying to parse if you're going after OnePlus, because they build pretty solid phones. Now of we we're taking about carriers we'd have a different conversation but as someone who's seen a lot of the mobile industry OnePlus is pretty decent on the bloatware in my book.

It seems that those days are gone.

Their recent Nord phone shipped with the full and uninstallable Facebook services suite (1). In a forum post(2) they claim it was done to improve battery life and performance. Reading about this Fortnite launcher deal makes me doubt the honesty of that claim even more.

A few months ago they also started pushing strange and invasive system apps to my OnePlus 6T like "OnePlus Zen Mode", "OnePlus Game Space", their own custom File Manager which - in India - even sent data to a Tencent server for some strange file cleanup functionality that could not be disabled (3)(4)!

I love my OnePlus 6T but writing this out made me realise how distrustful and wary I've become of this company that has access to a huge part of my life through my phone.

I'm now seriously considering replacing this device way early in its lifecycle. No idea what brand to turn to next though.

1. https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/08/05/oneplus-is-poisonin...

2. https://forums.oneplus.com/threads/allow-user-to-choose-whic...

3. https://forums.oneplus.com/threads/petition-against-file-man...

4. https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/05/07/oneplus-6-6t-users-...

Edit: Added link 4.

Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#133

Post by playeren »

pjmlp wrote: post #126
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic did their homework on the lawsuit, they make it very clear that Apple and Google are each separate monopolies. Because they have exclusive monopolies over app stores on devices that a large portion of people have. But the Play Store and App Store are not competitors: They control different markets. Furthermore, Epic helped highlight a very important point about Android and iOS: They're not actually competitors.…

The supermarket on the corner also has a monopoly on what gets on their shelves, and which persons are allowed to get in to buy their stuff.

I don't think your analogy is making any strong points, because there aren't just two supermarkets in the whole world.

I can choose from 4 different supermarkets within walking distance, and an additional 3 if you count online supermarkets that deliver to my area. That is not the case when it comes to choosing a mobile OS/app store.

Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#134

Post by neil_s »

This headline seems sensationalist to me. Google simply enforced its Android/Play Store Terms of Service, which have restrictions on apps being able to sideload other apps on devices that also have the Play Store. This is because if one of those other apps is infected, users don't know whether it came through the sideloaded apps or Play Store (which is supposed to virus scan all apps). You can argue all day about whether Google should be allowed to charge 30% of revenue for providing the value of the Play Store and Android, but seems pretty straightforward that if you sign the ToS, then sign a conflicting deal with an OEM, Google saying that that won't work is not exactly "forc[ing]...to decimate a deal".

Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#135

Post by pjmlp »

playeren wrote: post #133
pjmlp wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The supermarket on the corner also has a monopoly on what gets on their shelves, and which persons are allowed to get in to buy their stuff.

I don't think your analogy is making any strong points, because there aren't just two supermarkets in the whole world. I can choose from 4 different supermarkets within walking distance, and an additional 3 if you count online supermarkets that deliver to my area. That is not the case when it comes to choosing a mobile OS/app store.

I bet each one of them has exclusive products not available on the other ones.

Having more than one to choose from is still an option.

Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#136

Post by brian_cloutier »

gpm wrote: post #68
brian_cloutier wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feature has been around since Ice Cream Sandwich, released 2011 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Ice_Cream_Sandwich > Certain "System" apps (particularly those pre-loaded by carriers) that cannot be uninstalled can now be disabled. This hides the application and prevents it from launching, but the application is not removed from storage.

Disabling google assistant broke various unrelated features. What I just found out I can do above is change the "Assistant" default app from being "Google Assistant" to being none - which stops the stupid swipe in the wrong way and it grabs focus and the bottom half of the screen "feature". Edit: And to be clear this doesn't remove all the places Assitant pops up, just the most annoying one. It still has prominent pl…

Ah, sorry, I should have been paying better attention.

Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#137

Post by Const-me »

jojobas wrote: post #121
Const-me wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea who’s less wrong, Google or Epic, but I’m not sure I like your idea. Smartphones and PDAs existed for couple decades now, I’ve got a first PDA in 2000 or so. For many years before iPhone they were very niche products I’m not sure we had the explosion in popularity (followed by technical improvements of both hardware and software) had it not be the financial incentive from paid content, initially music,…

>If what you wrote in the comment would become a law, this would remove motivation to do investments like that. IPhone sales are profitable as they are, and always were. Of course not having iOS walled would lower their profits, but that's the whole point, as this profit comes from a detriment for everyone else. Android allows sideloading, yet making those phones is still reasonably profitable. PCs were expensive too…

> IPhone sales are profitable as they are

The numbers don’t add up.

Apple sold 6 million of iPhone 1 in 2007-2008 season before app.store launch. Assuming the average price was $550 that generated $3.3B turnover.

According to rumors spread by Bloomberg and other sources, Apple spent $2.6B on R&D of iPhone 1 from the moment the initial research began. Not a good business at all, this means Apple paid most of manufacturing and marketing out of their pocket.

After the app.store, apple was able to sell 100 million of iPhone 4 over 2010-2011 season. That’s more than order of magnitude difference. That increase in volume is what allowed Apple recuperate initial R&D costs, earn good profits, and increase their spending on R&D of new products by more than an order of magnitude since 2007.

I’m not sure people would have bought 100 million of iPhones 4 if you could run same apps on equally performing hardware that’s twice cheaper.

Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#138

Post by playeren »

pjmlp wrote: post #135
playeren wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think your analogy is making any strong points, because there aren't just two supermarkets in the whole world. I can choose from 4 different supermarkets within walking distance, and an additional 3 if you count online supermarkets that deliver to my area. That is not the case when it comes to choosing a mobile OS/app store.

I bet each one of them has exclusive products not available on the other ones. Having more than one to choose from is still an option.

Yes, and I know several of my friends and family who shop in different supermarkets for that reason. How many do you know that have both an iPhone and an Android phone?

Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#139

Post by pjmlp »

playeren wrote: post #138
pjmlp wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet each one of them has exclusive products not available on the other ones. Having more than one to choose from is still an option.

Yes, and I know several of my friends and family who shop in different supermarkets for that reason. How many do you know that have both an iPhone and an Android phone?

Plenty, I am one of them, I am Windows/Android user, and get Apple gear from work.

And I also know a few that still use and buy feature phones with their OEM only apps, with "by invitation only SDKs".

Which makes the choice bigger than two actually, when one looks at the actual market distribution, something that a judge will care about.

Re: Google forced OnePlus to decimate a Fortnite launcher deal, claims Epic Games

#140

Post by Sir_Substance »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #67

I don't find it particularly interesting to argue over whether Google and/or Apple or Goople are monopolies/duopolies. I think however it is obvious that something has seriously pathologically gone wrong in the mobile software market and these two companies are behind it. I also don't think that appeals to "is that legal" are all that satisfying -- (Apple's free speech lets them silence whoever they wish, of course)…

>I also don't think that appeals to "is that legal" are all that satisfying

I've always used the rule of thumb that if the best thing someone can say about their behavior or decisions is that they aren't illegal, that person is probably the arsehole in the situation.

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