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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#721

Post by evbpcapfxy »

hijklmno wrote: post #711
pferde wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition. "Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

Take the money back and go where? Live in a hut? It's such enabling behaviors that embolden these elitists to lord over our lives. You can't let anyone be a gatekeeper to technology and progress. This applies to every major tech player. And this is the time that we need to make our voices heard.

Personally I think the best option if we could move away from iOS and Android to a pure Linux phone like Librem5. I don't think it's there yet though. Seems like Vavle have had some success in supporting gaming on Linux so having a better alternative seems possible.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#722

Post by gwd »

grenoire wrote: post #710
pferde wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition. "Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

The android ecosystem and OEM's lack of support for older phones (for one) is something that is 'forcing' me to enter their walled garden. I can't, also as a customer, ignore that Apple has done a lot of things very well, but that doesn't at all stop me from also complaining about their bad practices.

Don't you think these things may have some relationship to each other? All the work Apple does has to be paid for somehow; and realistically, in a for-profit company like Apple, has to be paid for in a way that will generate not just barely enough to pay for itself, but has to be paid for in a way that will generate lots of profits.

Google makes money off of advertising. Apple makes money, in part, off of taxing apps. If Apple can't tax apps, then suddenly their business model isn't nearly as appealing, and they start needing to make changes to keep things profitable -- things like maybe selling more of your data, or "encouraging" you to upgrade by not supporting older phones as well.

This whole discussion always makes me angry because right now I have a choice: I can choose to buy a product supported by app taxes, or I can choose to buy a product supported by spying on me. If Apple is forced to allow other app stores, and thus forced to look for other business models to remain profitable, I may not have that choice any more.

If Fortnite doesn't like it, why don't they just charge 50% more for the app on iOS? If people complain, just show them the math, so they know that it's the Apple Tax making things more expensive. I'm happy to pay 30% more for apps.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#723

Post by jamesblonde »

czzr wrote: post #712
jamesblonde wrote: post #703

Hey HN mods! "spanhandler" is making a lot of cogent arguments in favor of Apple in this thread, like the voice of somebody with 20+ years in the industry. He also has a karma of 700+ after only opening the account 16 days ago. His entire comment history is to bash people arguing for open standards - see this thread, firefox threads, etc. I cannot think of any motivation for any techie to create an account to spread…

You want to shut down someone making, in your words, “cogent arguments”, because you disagree with their point of view and because other people seem to agree with them?

Cogent arguments is not the point. In school, we were trained to debate - take both sides of the argument. I could easily write more cogent points in favor of Apple.

The point is - what motivation would somebody have to create an account 16 days ago and post like crazy on everything anti open-source and with the aid of voting rings, get up to 700+ karma?

This was not done for some pseudonymous reason. He's being paid to write this propaganda, IMHO.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#724

Post by jamesblonde »

jamesblonde wrote: post #703

Hey HN mods! "spanhandler" is making a lot of cogent arguments in favor of Apple in this thread, like the voice of somebody with 20+ years in the industry. He also has a karma of 700+ after only opening the account 16 days ago. His entire comment history is to bash people arguing for open standards - see this thread, firefox threads, etc. I cannot think of any motivation for any techie to create an account to spread…

To build on my point, i was upvoted for the first few mins, but now (a ring?) has started downvoting me....

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#726

Post by deergomoo »

danShumway wrote: post #481
wheelie_boy wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applicatio…

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice. As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I do…

If you look at the Mac as an example, the vast majority of software is still distributed outside the Mac App Store, usually because either:

- The software is free and the developer doesn't want to pay $99/year to Apple

- The software is paid but the developer either doesn't want to give 30% to Apple, or they want to use a pricing model incompatible with the App Store (discounted upgrade pricing, rolling subscriptions etc.)

- The software does something that violates the guidelines, or in general is incompatible with sandboxing (or would be a worse product because of it)

Because so many applications are not, or in many cases _cannot_ be made available via the Mac App Store, users of said apps are in a sense "forced" to install outside the App Store. I believe that if sideloading was feasible for iOS, many developers (and certainly the big players) would pull out of the App Store completely.

I want to make it very clear though: I don't consider this an argument against sideloading apps at all. I consider it evidence that the App Store (on both iOS and macOS) is woefully inadequate at covering the full range of software developers want to build, and that in turn hurts customers.

I would love to use my iPad for more work related stuff, but I'm a software developer, so most of my day-to-day work involves software that just cannot run on iOS. If sideloading was available I could actually use it like the "Pro" device it claims to be, rather than just a very nice content consumption device.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#727

Post by YarickR2 »

hijklmno wrote: post #711
pferde wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition. "Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

Take the money back and go where? Live in a hut? It's such enabling behaviors that embolden these elitists to lord over our lives. You can't let anyone be a gatekeeper to technology and progress. This applies to every major tech player. And this is the time that we need to make our voices heard.

Found a company. Bring it to success. Build an ecosystem around it . Your voice will be heard, then.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#728

Post by hrktb »

hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

> It is the user's property from then on

I guess that's what's going to change more and more in our future. Just like apps/programs, movies, books, music tracks were our properties.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#729

Post by shrimpx »

mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

This is such a tough issue because you could argue zuckerberg is taking this exact stance when he refuses to moderate harmful content because they’re a “mere platform”. From that perspective you could see Apple as selling you “the whole end to end experience” and therefore taking responsibility for and curating all of it. So what do we want? What’s more evil and harmful? Pure platforms and their obliviousness as to good vs. bad, or curated end to end experiences and their draconian, limiting definitions of good vs. bad? And what’s the middle ground?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#730

Post by gwd »

danShumway wrote: post #481
wheelie_boy wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applicatio…

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice. As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I do…

> How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store?

The key thing to me is supporting Apple's ecosystem. That ecosystem doesn't come out of nowhere; it's supported by the Apple Tax. If Apple can't collect that tax, they have to either reduce the quality of the ecosystem, or look for revenue elsewhere, like selling your data or obsoleting older models faster.

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