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Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

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Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#21

Post by mehrdada »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #15
mehrdada wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would distinguish user vs developer. Android had always been partial to developers (more APIs at the cost of inconsistent and poor experience, sweeping location privacy on install that they refused to change until 10 version later, etc.) to entice developers to build on Android at some cost to the end user. Arguably, this 30% thing is not a freedom fight, just a payment negotiation for the publisher, and the end us…

> Neither those platforms, nor the developers, seem to give a rat's ass about that freedom though. All Pixel and Android One phones allow you to unlock the bootloader. Developers do care about that.

Yes, and that's great. Ideally you would want to be able to enroll your own security keys like Secure Boot, but I take all I can get. Android is not equivalent to Pixel though. Not even all Pixels do it by the way (notable exception was the ones sold by Verizon). So do macOS T2, and chromeOS developer mode (potentially with physical hardware screws to deter unintended misleading of a layperson).

However, all of that is pretty much orthogonal to what Epic wants, which is my point. Epic does not care about user freedom in that sense, just haggling to get a cut from 30/15% to ~5-10% and they'll be on their way. It's just spun as a user freedom thing (which is actually a valid request, but accomplished with very different means).

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#22

Post by labster »

kanobo wrote: post #7

Apple and Google are similar to China and America. Apple has more restrictive policies within a walled garden. Google gives more freedoms but its platform is wild and open. It's easy for Apple to take advantage of Google's ecosystem and open policies, but very difficult for Google to do the same to Apple. It's similar to how US companies don't get a fair shake in China. And in both, the citizens get taken advantage o…

Maybe.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#23

Post by heavyset_go »

mehrdada wrote: post #13
copp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> user could not care less Some publishers are giving the dollars back to the users. Like Fortnite. Also, because of Apple's rules, you cannot just sign-up from Netflix app in iOS. You have to sign up in their Browser and then sign in. And Netflix is not allowed to even specify that in the app. Absolutely confusing, for normal users. Very horrible experience. That is what I say when they are holding you as pawns. The…

> Android does allow it. They allow you to install any software. Even software that allows you to bypass Youtube Ads. In fact that is one reason why many stick to android You can install software on your own iOS with a free developer certificate as well. You cannot scale distribution though, which is by design, and ensures security of the other billions of users. I did not mean just the software running in a containe…

> You can install software on your own iOS with a free developer certificate as well.

And it expires after 7 days. You can't even scale using your own software without having to swap it out once a week.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#24

Post by clomond »

kanobo wrote: post #7

Apple and Google are similar to China and America. Apple has more restrictive policies within a walled garden. Google gives more freedoms but its platform is wild and open. It's easy for Apple to take advantage of Google's ecosystem and open policies, but very difficult for Google to do the same to Apple. It's similar to how US companies don't get a fair shake in China. And in both, the citizens get taken advantage o…

Fascinating analogy.

Given the fundamental differences between corporations and governments (and the span of control they have over people’s lives) I do not believe this analogy can be used for any useful inference.

It’s almost as if this example with app stores is an incredibly specific, narrow example, and government control in this way is incredibly broad in impact (I.e. life or death, end of the actual world etc).

Did any of that make any sense?

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#25

Post by reducesuffering »

septillianator wrote: post #20

Apple is obligated to maximize shareholders value. Google is a competitor as well. If apple did anything otherwise, it would cause shareholders losses. Its a publicly traded company. This is capitalism, not Apple.

You're missing the 4d chess involved.

> If apple did anything otherwise, it would cause shareholders losses.

Actually, by doing this, they could be gaining some revenue, while at the same time destroying their case for solidifying their own 30% cut. By losing that 30% cut, lose 100x the revenue and causing shareholders losses. So while "capitalism" may be eventually maximizing shareholder value, it doesn't happen by chasing local optima.

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#27

Post by intortus »

clomond wrote: post #24
kanobo wrote: post #7

Apple and Google are similar to China and America. Apple has more restrictive policies within a walled garden. Google gives more freedoms but its platform is wild and open. It's easy for Apple to take advantage of Google's ecosystem and open policies, but very difficult for Google to do the same to Apple. It's similar to how US companies don't get a fair shake in China. And in both, the citizens get taken advantage o…

Fascinating analogy. Given the fundamental differences between corporations and governments (and the span of control they have over people’s lives) I do not believe this analogy can be used for any useful inference. It’s almost as if this example with app stores is an incredibly specific, narrow example, and government control in this way is incredibly broad in impact (I.e. life or death, end of the actual world etc)…

I think you are saying that they are right, but also very, very wrong?

Re: Apple Music on Android asks user's card details to avoid Google's 30% cut

#30

Post by lern_too_spel »

mehrdada wrote: post #21
lern_too_spel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neither those platforms, nor the developers, seem to give a rat's ass about that freedom though. All Pixel and Android One phones allow you to unlock the bootloader. Developers do care about that.

Yes, and that's great. Ideally you would want to be able to enroll your own security keys like Secure Boot, but I take all I can get. Android is not equivalent to Pixel though. Not even all Pixels do it by the way (notable exception was the ones sold by Verizon). So do macOS T2, and chromeOS developer mode (potentially with physical hardware screws to deter unintended misleading of a layperson). However, all of that…

> Android is not equivalent to Pixel though.

Linux is not equivalent to a specific device either. That distinction is meaningless to developers, who will just get the device that lets them do what they need to do.

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