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Why is there only one Snap Store?

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Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#191

Post by ColanR »

im3w1l wrote: post #190
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canonical doesn't seem to understand that if I wanted a gate-kept system, there are plenty of better, non-Linux options in this world. Canonical seems to have forgotten why Linux exists to begin with.

Canonical is betting on there being people who want to run some Linux exclusive software but don't care about idealism. Edit: In hindsight I think this comment was too cynical. I like canonical mostly.

That's the wrong bet to make, because those are the people that will end up using the Microsoft WSL.

From what I can tell, the problems with Canonical will sort themselves out when the market they've created for themselves is eaten by Microsoft's incorporation of Linux into Windows.

The only people left using 'pure' Linux/Unix will be those who care about quality software, FOSS, and privacy. I hope that day comes sooner than later.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#192

Post by Firehawke »

Shared404 wrote: post #185
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience aligns far more with parent's than yours. The Linux Desktop experience is still pretty garbage.

I'm thinking it's been a few years, and/or you and the parent decided to install arch/gentoo instead of ubuntu/fedora.

My experiences with Debian have been pretty clean outside of needing to pre-prepare the binary blob package for the ethernet and wifi drivers on the slightly older laptop that I wanted to install it on. This was expected due to Debian's stance on non-free packages on the install media.

Pretty much any other modern distro install has gone 100% cleanly with no prep-work needed.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#193

Post by vetinari »

simion314 wrote: post #108
pantalaimon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you won’t get updates for that Snap

So you want something like a PPA? Is flatpack promoting each app will have it's own repo(Skype.Dropbox,Slack,Discord?) Seems to me that you want a way to have applications and updates installed by people and bypass the review process? If you are a distro maintainer you can change the hardcoded values before you build(distros always change this stuff) but if you are not a distro then you should either submit the app f…

> Is flatpack promoting each app will have it's own repo(Skype.Dropbox,Slack,Discord?)

Flatpak CAN support the scenario, where each app can have it's own repo. It's an option, not forced down your throat. Or you can self-host your private repo (e.g. applications used inside your network) IN ADDITION to public repos.

> Seems to me that you want a way to have applications and updates installed by people and bypass the review process?

Yes, I want to have Canonical out of the way. They can have their own repo if they really want; those who want curation by Canonical are free to use it. But I want to have options of different repos, with different curators. Canonical doesn't deserve to be the single gatekeeper between me and the apps.

> If you are a distro maintainer you can change the hardcoded values before you build(distros always change this stuff) but if you are not a distro then you should either submit the app for review or do what other apps do and prompt a notification that a new update is available with a link to a download page.

And this attitude is going to be a major reason why most distributions and users won't adopt snap. It will die the same way as other Canonical dead-ends did, while damaging the Linux ecosystems for a few years.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#194

Post by Shared404 »

Firehawke wrote: post #192
Shared404 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking it's been a few years, and/or you and the parent decided to install arch/gentoo instead of ubuntu/fedora.

My experiences with Debian have been pretty clean outside of needing to pre-prepare the binary blob package for the ethernet and wifi drivers on the slightly older laptop that I wanted to install it on. This was expected due to Debian's stance on non-free packages on the install media. Pretty much any other modern distro install has gone 100% cleanly with no prep-work needed.

That pretty closely matches my experiences as well. The only exception is that my first experience with Linux on something other than a raspberry pi was an optimus laptop.

NVIDIA issues aside, I've never had any issues with using a desktop oriented distro as a desktop. Way fewer issues than I've had with Windows.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#195

Post by nickstinemates »

unixhero wrote: post #135
coreblocks wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I think it’s simpler than that. The Linux desktop experience is just terrible... I have never successfully installed a Linux distro without having to fiddle with some boot flag or some config file. Every major Linux desktop environment has been unreliable at best. Software support is fragmented across dozens of distros. I think WSL has been the biggest win for Linux on the desktop, but ironically it’s on win…

What year is this? Linux desktop experience is fantastic in 2020. It has been for several years. That's bordering FUD you're spreading.

No it isn't. It's still garbage. Mutli-adapter, multi monitor setups are still a nightmare. Graphics performance is still atrocious.

I guess if you need a thin client to your cloud services, linux desktop is great. Not really for lots of other things.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#196

Post by hansvm »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #158
Izkata wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Snap is auto-updating and you can't stop it Kill the daemon and make it non-executable. Only restore it when you want to manually do an install.

What is this, Windows 10?

I wish Windows 10 were that nice. First you need a nice race condition to break the updater's updater's unauthorized change prevention service....

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#197

Post by burntsushi »

simion314 wrote: post #83
EE84M3i wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (N.B. Various snaps for ripgrep on Ubuntu are also available, but none of them seem to work right and generate a number of very strange bug reports that I don't know how to fix and don't have the time to fix. Therefore, it is no longer a recommended installation option.) I distinctly recall getting suggested by 'command-not-found' to install rg from a snap in some version of ubuntu, but I don't remember what versio…

Just an hypothesis, maybe some Rust apps that can't be compiled with the toolchain in Debian/ubuntu have no pother choice then use snap/flatpack (so maybe at that time in an LTS ditro apt would not have worked)

This isn't it. They just package a version of ripgrep that does compile with their toolchain. ripgrep has been around for almost four years now, and I think the first release was around Rust 1.9 or so. So even Debian will have a new enough version to compile some version of ripgrep.

I used to include installation instructions for Ubuntu Snap, but they were so mis-managed (both from the perspective the maintainer of the snap and of the entire snap ecosystem itself) that they were causing giant headaches. It became such a problem that I specifically put a call-out to it in my bug report template: https://github.com/BurntSushi/ripgrep/blob/master/.github/IS...

Snap has been hugely annoying on multiple axis since day 1.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#198

Post by sevensor »

jeroenhd wrote: post #92
1_person wrote: post #67

That reminds me of the stake Ubuntu Core was born with in its heart: > An Ubuntu SSO account is required to create the first user on an Ubuntu Core installation. They just keep flinging shit at nothing and hoping to hit a wall they can build a gate in. They're trying to boil the frog slowly with Snap on the Server/Desktop branches. There is no possible genuine motive for these maneuverings to be in the position of ga…

To be completely honest, if Canonical ever wants the theoretical "year of the Linux desktop" to happen, they need a way to get proper cloud accounts working. A big part of the value of Apple's ecosystem is iCloud. Microsoft has done the same thing with the syncing and cross platform capabilities of their Microsoft Accounts. Most Linux users today don't care much if they need to create separate email, cloud storage, b…

For my money, the year of the Linux Desktop was 2008. It's just that nobody noticed.

Since 2008, Linux has had the best combination of performance and hardware support on older machines, and the advantage has only grown since then. Windows and MacOS keep falling further behind in usability on machines older than four years, and that's the only hardware I would purchase for personal use. Why throw your money away on planned obsolescence, on an OS that keeps getting worse and worse, when you could use Linux on an older machine and have things keep getting better and better?

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#199

Post by dx87 »

nickstinemates wrote: post #195
unixhero wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What year is this? Linux desktop experience is fantastic in 2020. It has been for several years. That's bordering FUD you're spreading.

No it isn't. It's still garbage. Mutli-adapter, multi monitor setups are still a nightmare. Graphics performance is still atrocious. I guess if you need a thin client to your cloud services, linux desktop is great. Not really for lots of other things.

What distro are you using? I've been using multi-monitor setups for years, and it works with zero configuration on Ubuntu and Debian.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#200

Post by b5n »

1_person wrote: post #130
donor20 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow - strong language. Can I ask - do you contribute meaningfully to any open source packages? Do you buy software at a significant commercial level? I've noticed this sort of total absolutest, outraged, scorched earth style sometimes comes from the free riders. At least in some businesses I've worked with - if you can eliminate customers that approach things in this way your staff are happier, your life more relaxed…

> Can I ask - do you contribute meaningfully to any open source packages? Yes. > Do you buy software at a significant commercial level? No. > I think Redhat did the gatekeeper to 30 billion route. Where's the RedHat app store? Which version of RHEL is targeted at embedded devices yet requires an internet connection to install to validate your SSO credentials? Their business model is support and to my knowledge they h…

> Debian awaits

Come on in, the water's fine!

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