Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#261

Post by RonanTheGrey » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

nodesocket wrote: post #173

I don't see the problem, Epic explicitly went around the app store's payment process and terms of service. It's within Apple's right to pull Fortnite. They are also suing Apple as well. Why should Epic get a “special arrangement” from all other developers? If you don't like the terms, then don't be on the Apple App store, but of course your missing a huge swath of the population thus the 30% fee. Being on the App sto…

> I don't see the problem, Epic explicitly went around the app store's payment process and terms of service.

Epic HAD to do this in order to force the issue in order to claim specific harm. Of COURSE Apple pulled the app, and Epic knew they would. Epic now gets to claim that Apple's behavior is consumer-hostile and anticompetitive. That's a claim they cannot make without a concrete example of harm (this is just how the courts work). Saying that "Apple was within their rights" is the same argument as "If it is legal it is moral" which we all know is not true.

> Why should Epic get a “special arrangement” from all other developers?

They shouldn't. And neither should Amazon - they do. Or any other example where Apple has made exceptions to their rules, if your company is big enough.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#262

Post by ernst_klim » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

kqvamxurcagg wrote: post #195

nodesocket wrote: post #173

I don't see the problem, Epic explicitly went around the app store's payment process and terms of service. It's within Apple's right to pull Fortnite. They are also suing Apple as well. Why should Epic get a “special arrangement” from all other developers? If you don't like the terms, then don't be on the Apple App store, but of course your missing a huge swath of the population thus the 30% fee. Being on the App sto…

As a consumer, why can't there be an alternative App Store on IoS if I don't like the Apple terms? Apple shouldn't force consumers and developers to provide them with 30%.

If you don't like the service or product, don't buy it. There are Android, Sailfish, Postmarket, Mer.

It's extremely unethical in my opinion to force some service provider to adjust the service to your needs/preferences.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#263

Post by paulnechifor » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

rvz wrote: post #15

lordleft wrote: post #6

Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs. a) prohibiting the installation of non-windows store software (sideloading) and b) insisting that all purchases done via apps give them a 30% cut. I think this is a ridiculous practice on the behalf of Apple.

Even worse. Imagine if the World Wide Web was not open and you had to go through a closed WWW like AOL and websites were "under review" by the providers and would take a 30% cut of your revenues or clicks on your web app or subscription service and websites require going only through that provider. Thank goodness that wasn't the case.

Even worse. Imagine millions of people knowing this and still buying these inferior phones.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#264

Post by ryanSrich » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

newbie578 wrote: post #249

ryanSrich wrote: post #171

I think I’m completely fine with Apple doing this. It’s a clear violation of the TOS and Epic clearly knows that. They likely also knew well before making the update and perhaps thought Apple would bluff and only threaten a take down. Platforms aren’t free.

TOS is not the law, it is a set of arbitrary rules set by Apple, and Epic wants to challenge those rules. Which I am completely fine with Epic doing this.

I’m fine with that as well. I’m good with both Apple taking the game down as well as Epic filing a lawsuit.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#265

Post by admiral33 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

Separate hardware and software. If you buy an iPhone, you have the right to put whatever software you want on it. Similarly - Apple can restrict whatever software they provide to you on those devices in return. Future software updates, App store, iCloud etc.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#266

Post by shoulderfake » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

Fuck apple

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#267

Post by andy_ppp » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

Let’s be honest, this has been coming for a while, like the ever increasing length, irritation and regularity of YouTube ads, Apple has been training you to accept an App Store only Mac. My guess is the Arm Macs will knock everyone’s socks off with freakish thinness, unreal battery life and performance, be extremely cheap and completely lock down the computer to Apple taking 30% of every piece of software you purchase and Apple being the only way to install software.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#268

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #24

Findeton wrote: post #13

I don't think this should be regulated at all. Apple should be able to impose their rules in their systems. Let's be clear about this, if people are choosing to buy these black-box closed handheld computing devices, there are consequences that come with that choice.

I disagree. The model makes sense for a console, as it's a very specialized device. A smartphone or a tablet are much closer to a general computing device. How many times has Apple said the iPad is a laptop replacement?

I keep hearing "general computing device."

Define this.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#269

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #129

mmm_grayons wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There are pros and cons to this sort of model. The pro is that the security model of an iphone is better than probably anything else one could buy. The con is that apple makes the rules about what goes and stays. Given the popularity of this app, I could see a kid wanting an android instead for this reason. On the other hand, Apple could easily make the case that this is to prevent scams, maintain parental c…

> The pro is that the security model of an iphone is better than probably anything else one could buy. Exploits for iOS are cheaper than exploits for Android because exploits for iOS are so plentiful.

[deleted]

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#270

Post by tinco » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

reissbaker wrote: post #62

eggbrain wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, couldn't we just replace Microsoft->Sony and PC->Playstation and the argument falls apart a bit? > Imagine if Sony did this on Playstation. a) prohibiting the installation of non-PlayStation games and b) insisting that all purchases done via their store give them a 30% cut. Many platforms are like this -- and many also have the majority marketshare. Is this a call to redefine what platforms can and cannot con…

FWIW, actually Sony doesn't demand a 30% cut of all revenue from any company that makes an app for their store. You can have subscriptions to non-Sony services, and Sony doesn't see a dime. Sony doesn't demand a cut of Netflix subscriptions, for example, despite having a Netflix app available for download. Similarly, it doesn't get a cut of Spotify revenue either. For PlayStation you pay the Sony tax for the convenie…

I don't know about Sony, but I'm pretty sure Apple got the idea for their app store business model from Nintendo, who notoriously was the king of the walled garden business model. I'm pretty sure Nintendo took a 30% cut as well.

The only reason Sony is not charging exorbitant amounts (if they really aren't) is because they're in heated competition with Microsoft over being the preferred first release platform of popular games.