I just ordered my first Android phone in years just to play XCloud. Apple needs to rethink its gaming and app policies.
Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
241–250 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#242If I go to the App Store on my phone, and go to my "Purchased" list, Fortnite is still listed there. I wasn't up to date, and clicking on "update" gives the message: "Fortnite" No Longer Available. The developer has removed this app from the App Store. Interesting wording. I wonder if they only have one message for pulled-by-Apple vs pulled-by-dev?
Epic effectively pulled it themselves when they unilaterally broke their agreement. I think Apple's cut is egregious but at the same time, they're not a monopoly. My main gripe is that they're behaving as if they're bringing value that the developers are riding on, when in reality nobody would buy iPhones if it weren't for the value that many developers are bringing to the platform, often at no cost to Apple.
> My main gripe is that they're behaving as if they're bringing value that the developers are riding on, when in reality nobody would buy iPhones if it weren't for the value that many developers are bringing to the platform, often at no cost to Apple.
Counterpoint: the consistency, convenience, and safety of the App Store and broader iOS platform is part of why so much money is spent there.
[EDIT] but yes I think their cut should be lower. They are definitely delivering a ton of value to developers, though, and part of that is created precisely by some of the restrictions that developers love to complain about.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#243I don't think this should be regulated at all. Apple should be able to impose their rules in their systems. Let's be clear about this, if people are choosing to buy these black-box closed handheld computing devices, there are consequences that come with that choice.
Regulation and "disruption" are not mutually exclusive in theory.
Smartphones and "apps services" come as a whole and are commodity (drug?) enough to be somehow regulated. Then, again, I'm french :)
Choice for non hackers feels pretty much limited to choosing apple|google|huawei|... poison pill or rejecting the whole smartphone+cloud+5g+... stuff.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Epic has the massive financial war chest to see this through, though. If anyone can afford to push this through the legal process, it's Epic.
This will cost Epic more money than it will Apple. Either company can end up dragging the legal battle on for years. In the meantime Epic's game won't be available on Apple platforms. By the time that battle is over, the game is probably not popular anymore.
That's what I thought of Fortnite over a year ago, it's proven to have surprising longevity and seems to be rivaled only by Minecraft for capturing the attention of young people.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#245I don't think this should be regulated at all. Apple should be able to impose their rules in their systems. Let's be clear about this, if people are choosing to buy these black-box closed handheld computing devices, there are consequences that come with that choice.
People often accept restrictions on their freedom, but that does not mean those limitations aren't harmful. We should be able to install what we want on a general purpose computing device. You can already see the Apple mentality creeping into other companies like Mozilla, who suddenly find it acceptable to limit user freedom for questionable reasons, and the normalization of stripped user liberties that Apple champio…
Honestly, where is the actual harm done here?
Again, this is just out of touch. Call it what it is - software companies want more money and want to use the market apple created for every last one of them for free.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm guessing the crux of the argument will be that the ToS are illegal in this respect?
It is likely extremely difficult to win such a suit based on challenging the terms of an agreement that you agreed to repeatedly. Every single change to the TOS for a developer account requires acceptance. I doubt there is any part of this agreement that Apple did not write with this exact circumstance in mind. No matter what Epic challenges based on this argument in the end they will give in and look like fools. May…
If I give you a contract stating that you allow me to shoot you in the head, you sign it, and I pull the trigger, I still go to prison for murder. Whether or not you "agreed" to something is irrelevant if the contract cannot be legally enforced, which is what Epic is hoping to prove with this lawsuit.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#247I wonder if this would all go away if Apple had a blessed 3rd party payment processing sdk and the ability to sell in app upgrades (which a lot of developers have wanted for nearly the entire existence of the App Store)
this would allow them to not have to remove the restriction about mentioning outside of the app payment options, which I actually think prevents a lot of abuse and businesses really care about having control over their payments processor like using Stripe, say, to avoid the 30% cut)
Really this comes down to those two issues, I see it over and over again.
I know as an aside a lot of people want to be able to also ship binaries outside the App Store. The reality I have found talking to quite a few app developers that sell on the App Store, very few (I can recount one out of 13) actually want to be able to sell their app outside the App Store and ship a binary outside the App Store. I know some on HN want this and I get it, but I think reality is different from ideals on that particular issue. Though I think it has merit I also think it’s not a requirement to make nearly all parties involved happy with an outcome that would dramatically improve things for developers in respect to issues with the App store
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
Epic has the massive financial war chest to see this through, though. If anyone can afford to push this through the legal process, it's Epic.
This will cost Epic more money than it will Apple. Either company can end up dragging the legal battle on for years. In the meantime Epic's game won't be available on Apple platforms. By the time that battle is over, the game is probably not popular anymore.
Honestly Fortnite has been consistently popular for a few years now. I'm betting on it becoming another Minecraft type of game where it could be still popular in 5-10 years from now.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#249I think I’m completely fine with Apple doing this. It’s a clear violation of the TOS and Epic clearly knows that. They likely also knew well before making the update and perhaps thought Apple would bluff and only threaten a take down. Platforms aren’t free.
TOS is not the law, it is a set of arbitrary rules set by Apple, and Epic wants to challenge those rules.
Which I am completely fine with Epic doing this.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#250I don't see the problem, Epic explicitly went around the app store's payment process and terms of service. It's within Apple's right to pull Fortnite. They are also suing Apple as well. Why should Epic get a “special arrangement” from all other developers? If you don't like the terms, then don't be on the Apple App store, but of course your missing a huge swath of the population thus the 30% fee. Being on the App sto…
A 30% 'Finders Fee' is one thing.
A 30% Tax Forever is a whole different problem.