in the end i think apple relents and opens the app store in order to keep subscription revenue from music, tv, etc., because all of these high profile attacks are basically death by a thousand cuts. In the end everyone loses but the lawyers.
Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
161–170 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#162Ok, lets just set aside our strawmen for a second and ask: why did Apple do this and what's the big deal anyway? * Why did Apple trounce these folks? My first thought is, ridiculously intrusive anti-cheat? * Then, assuming that's the case and you're ok with letting someone else remote-admin your machine, can't you just install Fortnite directly anyway? So what's the big deal exactly?
1. Epic violated Apple's ToS (apparently intentionally, to start a legal battle that they want to have right now due to EU investigations into abuse of monopoly power by large tech companies like Apple and Google)
2. Apple has to enforce their ToS (there is legal precedent that if you don't enforce your own rules, then you don't care about them - so it's a good idea to follow your own rules) so they had to boot Fortnite from the App store
The big deal is that this might trigger significant legal judgements that may determine what tech giants can or cannot do on their platforms.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
It could be the case if AMP grows dominant; given the market share of Google Search, it could be enough to create a controlled (er, "curated") web in a similar spirit.
AMP isn't enforced though. You can say 'not yet' or 'it's kind of the same' but that applies for a lot of standards.
It's enforced through visibility / rankings in Google Search results.
https://developers.google.com/search/docs/guides/about-amp
Isn't there a term for using dominance in one market to compel behavior in another?
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I trust ICANN more than I trust Apple Then you haven't been paying attention. Apple at least has competition. ICANN is a government supported monopoly that has been systematically taken over by robber barons.
Apple is a government supported legal monopoly due to patents, licences and copyrights, so are many others, but they are too. If Apple wasn't both the largest US phone maker and a legal monopoly, their behavior would not be as problematic, as you could (at least in theory, probably in practice too) sell other hardware to run ios/macos, or resell legally obtained, and modified software without Apple restrictions. Whet…
>as you could (at least in theory, probably in practice too) sell other hardware to run ios/macos, or resell legally obtained, and modified software without Apple restrictions.
This wasn't true when Apple was a small fry so why would it be true when they are the largest US phone maker?
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#165What happened to the days where everyone controlled their own domains/IP addresses/servers? Why would anyone want to risk being deplatformed? I trust ICANN more than I trust Apple and ${CLOUD_PROVIDER}
> What happened to the days where everyone controlled their own domains/IP addresses/servers? Yeah in those days 99.9% of the world didn't use it.
How can this thought persist in a world where everyone is supposedly more tech savvy than ever?
Seems like those that wish to use Apple (consumers, Epic) should either deal with the consequences, beg the government for help, or build their own open standard.
For me I lean towards building the open standard and teaching people how to use it. The App Store is for the lazy.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#166Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs. a) prohibiting the installation of non-windows store software (sideloading) and b) insisting that all purchases done via apps give them a 30% cut. I think this is a ridiculous practice on the behalf of Apple.
Sorry to hijack but an outrageous example from Google: Chrome silently & automatically detects when you login to a google website and uses this to log you into Chrome with that same account. They then hide the option to disable this in advanced settings. They are now trying to create a monopoly in the browser and steal additional data.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who's device is it? Apple's or the customer that paid for it in full?
The device may be yours but the App Store belongs to Apple. Can you walk into a Walmart and start selling your stuff?
can you imagine the same argument but on a computer?
you buy a macbook and now you can't install ANY software that is not on the macOS appstore. oh! and you can't install a different OS.
would you accept that? what's the difference?
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who else is apple competing with to put apps on iphones? Compared to android where you have indy devs, samsung store, play store, or any other store; it's a clear monopoly.
There isn't an iPhone industry, there's a smartphone industry, and Apple (despite all their profits) only controls a small portion of that business. Their strategy also adds a lot of consumer value. I use an iPhone specifically because I understand the tradeoffs between freedom and reliability/security, and I go for the reliability/security. Not everyone wants a second job playing sysadmin on their smartphone.
> There isn't an iPhone industry
Of course there is. You can argue that it shouldn't be the deciding factor here, but you can't argue it doesn't exist at all.
iOS is basically a geographical region. It's like saying there isn't a California market because it's instead the US market. Or that you can't be considered a monopoly because people can move. Yes, they can, but there's significant burdens to that movement. And it turns out that burden was enough to consider things like utilities to be monopolies. Is the burden on switching between Android & iOS high enough to be considered a barrier to free competition? I'd say yes, it is. As such, iOS is its own market in which Apple is abusing monopoly position.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
TOS can't violate laws though. A contract that is in violation of the law isn't enforceable. Epic is looking for a judgement to make it illegal.
Expanding on this. The idea that a large platform like iOS can only have apps loaded through a market place controlled by the hardware manufactured is clearly in violation of the spirit of anti-trust laws. However there's no legal precedent on this because no one with deep enough pockets to fight Apple has been angry enough to do it yet. Meaning this could be great news for everyone if this goes to court and Apple lo…
I think everyone is just assuming that Epic will win. I don't think that's the most likely scenario. The US is a very different legal and social environment than it was 30 years ago. More likely it's going to set a precedent that device makers can do exactly the things that Apple is doing, and more than that, they'll become the norm and you can kiss any "open" hardware platforms goodbye.
Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even worse. Imagine if the World Wide Web was not open and you had to go through a closed WWW like AOL and websites were "under review" by the providers and would take a 30% cut of your revenues or clicks on your web app or subscription service and websites require going only through that provider. Thank goodness that wasn't the case.
It could be the case if AMP grows dominant; given the market share of Google Search, it could be enough to create a controlled (er, "curated") web in a similar spirit.
Fuck AMP. The fact that there is no way to turn it off is one of the main reasons I don't use Google on my phone. DDG often has slightly poorer results, but I often find answers to my questions in Reddit threads and Reddit has a horrible mobile experience. Between AMP and them throwing 15 different popups at me to get their app (why would I want their single tab app?!?!), it's borderline unusable.