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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#131

Post by pneill »

kwanbix wrote: post #98
pneill wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor analogy. iOS does not have the market dominance that Windows/Microsoft has. In this case, iPhones represent about 15% of the global smartphone sales and I think that the OS (in the US) is a 60/40 iOS vs android split. There is a viable market. Developers, unwilling to pay the Apple fee, can switch to Android. If more apps are available on Android, that will shift the users away from iOS to Android. When I see fo…

Ten % Is more than reasonable. But the point here is that not o my do they charge 30%, they forbide you from selling from outside their store.

Ok, 10% is your number. So after your app has been on the store for more than a year, Apple's fee falls to 15%. So you're arguing that the 5% difference is unreasonable.

Let's put that % difference into perspective. Say you have an annual fee of $10. The first year, your users pay Apple $3 (you make $7), but after that for every user that subscribes you only pay $1.50 (you make $8.50). You're saying that Apples should only charge $1. You're arguing that fifty cents is the difference between life and death of your business? Really?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#132

Post by eecc »

Ok, lets just set aside our strawmen for a second and ask: why did Apple do this and what's the big deal anyway?

* Why did Apple trounce these folks? My first thought is, ridiculously intrusive anti-cheat? * Then, assuming that's the case and you're ok with letting someone else remote-admin your machine, can't you just install Fortnite directly anyway?

So what's the big deal exactly?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#133

Post by Dylan16807 »

jaeming wrote: post #99

... the developer on Thursday implemented its own in-app payment system that bypassed Apple’s standard 30 percent fee. ...1,000 V-bucks, which is roughly equivalent to $10 in-game Fortnite currency, now costs just $7.99 if you use Epic direct payment instead of the standard Apple payment processing. Normally, that amount of currency costs $9.99. Epic says, in this case, customers keep the extra savings, not the compa…

The 30% includes payment processing, I think. So $7.50 would be a roughly equivalent price. At $7.99, 80% of the savings are going to the customer.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#134

Post by lostmyoldone »

mike_d wrote: post #14
sushshshsh wrote: post #5

What happened to the days where everyone controlled their own domains/IP addresses/servers? Why would anyone want to risk being deplatformed? I trust ICANN more than I trust Apple and ${CLOUD_PROVIDER}

> I trust ICANN more than I trust Apple Then you haven't been paying attention. Apple at least has competition. ICANN is a government supported monopoly that has been systematically taken over by robber barons.

Apple is a government supported legal monopoly due to patents, licences and copyrights, so are many others, but they are too.

If Apple wasn't both the largest US phone maker and a legal monopoly, their behavior would not be as problematic, as you could (at least in theory, probably in practice too) sell other hardware to run ios/macos, or resell legally obtained, and modified software without Apple restrictions.

Whether their behavior is acceptable or not must be framed in a much larger picture. Companies are given legal rights by virtue of expectations of that being the best for society, and that's the metric that companies should be measured against.

Would it be good, and acceptable for society if all technology vendors/brands acted exactly as Apple regarding the App Store?

It's quite easy to answer that with a no, since clearly tying many frequnt small purchases indefinitely to a bigger purchase is not something that can ever increase competition. As it will form a less effective market, it can't be said to be desirable.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#135

Post by lern_too_spel »

Seirdy wrote: post #18
rvz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse. Imagine if the World Wide Web was not open and you had to go through a closed WWW like AOL and websites were "under review" by the providers and would take a 30% cut of your revenues or clicks on your web app or subscription service and websites require going only through that provider. Thank goodness that wasn't the case.

It could be the case if AMP grows dominant; given the market share of Google Search, it could be enough to create a controlled (er, "curated") web in a similar spirit.

How? The publishers publish AMP pages, and multiple link aggregators (including Bing) consume them. I could see an Apple News style system being controlled like that because it forces the publishers to directly integrate with a single link aggregator.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#137

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

lordleft wrote: post #6

Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs. a) prohibiting the installation of non-windows store software (sideloading) and b) insisting that all purchases done via apps give them a 30% cut. I think this is a ridiculous practice on the behalf of Apple.

>Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs.

Just switch to a competitor! Go-to Linux or Mac. All good, no antitrust here. /s

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#138

Post by atavisticapple »

coldcode wrote: post #104
abnry wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the crux of the argument will be that the ToS are illegal in this respect?

It is likely extremely difficult to win such a suit based on challenging the terms of an agreement that you agreed to repeatedly. Every single change to the TOS for a developer account requires acceptance. I doubt there is any part of this agreement that Apple did not write with this exact circumstance in mind. No matter what Epic challenges based on this argument in the end they will give in and look like fools. May…

I'm not sure why you feel qualified to comment on the legal aspects on this case based on just a primitive understanding of offer and acceptance (which isn't the point of contention here). You can't have an enforceable contractual term that is illegal, even if both parties have agreed to it. The legal issue is whether Apple's ToS contravenes some aspect of competition law.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#139

Post by three_seagrass »

Seirdy wrote: post #18
rvz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse. Imagine if the World Wide Web was not open and you had to go through a closed WWW like AOL and websites were "under review" by the providers and would take a 30% cut of your revenues or clicks on your web app or subscription service and websites require going only through that provider. Thank goodness that wasn't the case.

It could be the case if AMP grows dominant; given the market share of Google Search, it could be enough to create a controlled (er, "curated") web in a similar spirit.

AMP isn't enforced though. You can say 'not yet' or 'it's kind of the same' but that applies for a lot of standards.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#140

Post by papito »

I want to start reading "Evil Geniuses: The Unmaking of America: A Recent History", which covers the now failed anti-trust system in the United States, but I am worried for my blood pressure, as it covers many other ways in which our government almost exclusively works for its corporate owners.

We may think of how Europe deals with big business as extreme and radical, but it's only because we got so far away from the reasonable middle ground of big money and citizenry coexisting without f---ing each other over.

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