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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#61

Post by rokobobo »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #36
eggbrain wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, couldn't we just replace Microsoft->Sony and PC->Playstation and the argument falls apart a bit? > Imagine if Sony did this on Playstation. a) prohibiting the installation of non-PlayStation games and b) insisting that all purchases done via their store give them a 30% cut. Many platforms are like this -- and many also have the majority marketshare. Is this a call to redefine what platforms can and cannot con…

There is a distinction between a general purpose computing device and a gaming console. I depend on my computer for important aspects of my life, not just entertainment. I perceive capricious behaviour like this ad a threat to my liberty and well-being.

One could argue that you bought your PC and the Windows license that comes with it because it's general purpose. And you would have paid less money if you knew it was going to lock you in.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the idea of "digital anti-globalism", but if this thing went to court, both sides would have their reasonable arguments. And let's hope that if there's a ruling, it rules in favor of open platforms. At the very least, I think it would be great if the courts rule that a platform that's built open and sold as open cannot be consequently closed. But I doubt that Apple will be forced to open its hardware to non-App Store programs.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#62

Post by reissbaker »

eggbrain wrote: post #29
lordleft wrote: post #6

Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs. a) prohibiting the installation of non-windows store software (sideloading) and b) insisting that all purchases done via apps give them a 30% cut. I think this is a ridiculous practice on the behalf of Apple.

I mean, couldn't we just replace Microsoft->Sony and PC->Playstation and the argument falls apart a bit? > Imagine if Sony did this on Playstation. a) prohibiting the installation of non-PlayStation games and b) insisting that all purchases done via their store give them a 30% cut. Many platforms are like this -- and many also have the majority marketshare. Is this a call to redefine what platforms can and cannot con…

FWIW, actually Sony doesn't demand a 30% cut of all revenue from any company that makes an app for their store. You can have subscriptions to non-Sony services, and Sony doesn't see a dime. Sony doesn't demand a cut of Netflix subscriptions, for example, despite having a Netflix app available for download. Similarly, it doesn't get a cut of Spotify revenue either.

For PlayStation you pay the Sony tax for the convenience of integrating with their payment services, not because they'll ban you for using anything else.

It's also a super different situation in general; for example, Sony actually often pays developers to develop for their store (e.g. PubFund [1]), and does free marketing campaigns for them. Console makers live and die by their access to a pipeline of new exclusive games, so they treat game developers well; Apple doesn't, so it squeezes app developers for what it can. Hence why game developers are suing Apple but not Sony.

1: https://www.giantbomb.com/pub-fund/3015-7606/

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#63

Post by swiley »

Findeton wrote: post #57
swiley wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is more than welcome to put whatever rules they want on their systems. My phone is not their system though, it’s mine! If I want to run tmux/fetchmail/ocamlc on it then it’s my problem not theirs!

I'm sure if you install some version of Linux in your iPhone you can do whatever you want. But you're probably using iOS.

I would install desktop Linux on my iPhone if I could but there are no drivers in mainline and they work hard to lock the bootloader down (and before someone suggests android, the intention there is just as bad but tends to be less well executed and there still aren’t suitable drivers available.)

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#64

Post by mdavidn »

grawprog wrote: post #33
pier25 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The model makes sense for a console, as it's a very specialized device. A smartphone or a tablet are much closer to a general computing device. How many times has Apple said the iPad is a laptop replacement?

I disagree it makes sense on a console. Phones can be used to: -communicate -consume media -browse the web -play games Consoles can be used to: -play games -consume media -browse the web -communicate I fail to see the difference to be honest.

I own and use multiple consoles. I only carry one phone.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#65

Post by highmastdon »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #36
eggbrain wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, couldn't we just replace Microsoft->Sony and PC->Playstation and the argument falls apart a bit? > Imagine if Sony did this on Playstation. a) prohibiting the installation of non-PlayStation games and b) insisting that all purchases done via their store give them a 30% cut. Many platforms are like this -- and many also have the majority marketshare. Is this a call to redefine what platforms can and cannot con…

There is a distinction between a general purpose computing device and a gaming console. I depend on my computer for important aspects of my life, not just entertainment. I perceive capricious behaviour like this ad a threat to my liberty and well-being.

Why would there be a difference in treatment for entertainment vs general purpose? Both are devices that I’ve bought, so I should be able to use them as I see fit.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#66

Post by quwert95 »

eggbrain wrote: post #29
lordleft wrote: post #6

Imagine if Microsoft did this on PCs. a) prohibiting the installation of non-windows store software (sideloading) and b) insisting that all purchases done via apps give them a 30% cut. I think this is a ridiculous practice on the behalf of Apple.

I mean, couldn't we just replace Microsoft->Sony and PC->Playstation and the argument falls apart a bit? > Imagine if Sony did this on Playstation. a) prohibiting the installation of non-PlayStation games and b) insisting that all purchases done via their store give them a 30% cut. Many platforms are like this -- and many also have the majority marketshare. Is this a call to redefine what platforms can and cannot con…

Funny you mention Sony -- Linux support on the PS3 turned into a big deal. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS )

Historically, other game consoles could be used a "general purpose computing devices," such as the Sega Dreamcast with Windows CE and the Nintendo Famicom (which is short for Family Computer).

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#67

Post by ClumsyPilot »

mulmen wrote: post #38
infinityplus1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people have no idea what they are getting into when they buy Apple devices as a status symbol.

Please. Whatever strawman you are trying to construct is missing the point. I do not buy Apple products as a status symbol. I buy them because they work . I won't even say the products are good, there are a lot of things I'd like to see change. But they are the best thing on the market for getting my work done. My laptop and phone are my hammer and workbench. The iPhone and MacBook are far and away the best product f…

Firstly, you are not the representative sample, I can testify that in much of russia they are definately a status symbol and most of their customers are not developers. My sample size is still not great, but at least i am not talking about myself.

Secondly, this narrow-minded attitude is reflected in you calling MacBook the best general computing solution. There are a large variety of requirements for general computing solution, the most common ones that macbook can't satisfy are cost and gaming performance. Indeed no one product can satisfy them.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#68

Post by skizm »

swiley wrote: post #42
Findeton wrote: post #13

I don't think this should be regulated at all. Apple should be able to impose their rules in their systems. Let's be clear about this, if people are choosing to buy these black-box closed handheld computing devices, there are consequences that come with that choice.

Apple is more than welcome to put whatever rules they want on their systems. My phone is not their system though, it’s mine! If I want to run tmux/fetchmail/ocamlc on it then it’s my problem not theirs!

Agreed it shouldn't be illegal, but Apple (or any hardware / software maker) should be allowed to do everything in their power to make this extremely inconvenient by putting in hardware blocks, bricking logic, updating their software regularly with new obfuscation techniques, etc. and also, voiding the warranty if there is evidence of tampering with hardware or software.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#69

Post by swiley »

skizm wrote: post #68
swiley wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is more than welcome to put whatever rules they want on their systems. My phone is not their system though, it’s mine! If I want to run tmux/fetchmail/ocamlc on it then it’s my problem not theirs!

Agreed it shouldn't be illegal , but Apple (or any hardware / software maker) should be allowed to do everything in their power to make this extremely inconvenient by putting in hardware blocks, bricking logic, updating their software regularly with new obfuscation techniques, etc. and also, voiding the warranty if there is evidence of tampering with hardware or software.

I understand where you’re coming from and would be ok if it were easy (or even possible) for the community to build an alternative device but that doesn’t appear to be the case.

The technical and social reality that giving apple the freedom to configure the majority of devices in the US is extremely unpleasant. Enough that it makes me question the principles driving the philosophy that allowed this (in particular, the legality of closed software.)

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#70

Post by leadingthenet »

Findeton wrote: post #57
swiley wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is more than welcome to put whatever rules they want on their systems. My phone is not their system though, it’s mine! If I want to run tmux/fetchmail/ocamlc on it then it’s my problem not theirs!

I'm sure if you install some version of Linux in your iPhone you can do whatever you want. But you're probably using iOS.

They don’t really give you the option of installing Linux on the iPhone tho, do they?
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