Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#191

Post by meheleventyone » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #146

meheleventyone wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic only takes a cut when revenue exceeds one million dollars and then only 5% which is considerably less than 30% on every transaction. I don’t think Epic are against fees so much as against ones as high as in the App Store.

That's right, but the basis of comparison is different. Apple has a monopoly on 1/2 of Smartphones users in the US, Android the other. This is a totally different scenario that 'choosing component vendors'.

Absolutely, it wasn’t my comparison. That Apple has a monopoly and uses it to charge egregious fees is something I’m absolutely behind Epic in fighting.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#192

Post by bohemian99 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

ecf wrote: post #91

slongfield wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

But there are other Smartphone platforms with their own store, correct? I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.

It's about monopolization. Should a company be able to vertically integrate and install a toll booth to profit off of all developers on their platform? Or does that hurt consumers more than it would hurt businesses to separate that power?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#193

Post by badwolf » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

adrianmonk wrote: post #20

So, what is Epic's plan? I have to assume they fully expected removal. So they must have some next step in mind. Some kind of legal action? A complaint to regulators or a lawsuit? Are either of those likely to work?

https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293994211621167105

They absolutely expected this.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#194

Post by Ericson2314 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

ecf wrote: post #91

slongfield wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

But there are other Smartphone platforms with their own store, correct? I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.

It's not perfect but what else can we do?

- Yes, every shmuck who buys only iOS cause Apple is the status symbol undermines everyone's ability to choose. But we'd need a consumer union to go after these monopoly-aiders as scabs. Ha ha ha not going to happen.

- All the other hardware manufactures are so shitty and quality control and integration that they are also responsible. Do we wait for Moon's party to break up Samsung so Apple gets more competition? Tell Taiwan to break up TMSC or do more direct-to-consumer?

Fundamentally we have the perfect storm of outsourcing and low quality, precarious Americans looking for status, and nationally-tinged monpolies. The idea solutions are just out of reach in the short term, so I support putting iOS on a stupid pedestal to break up Apple's exclusionary vertical integration.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#195

Post by anothermoron » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

xoxoy wrote: post #8

Fortnite of course expected this: seems like they’ve prepared a short video mocking Apple’s old super bowl ad 1984 to premiere in an hour https://twitter.com/fortnitegame/status/1293984290326433792?...

They also released this:

https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#196

Post by Tostino » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #94

threeseed wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is simply an investigation. There are no plans in place to force Apple, Google etc. to do anything. And it's not even clear what outcome the EU is even seeking.

If past cases are something to go by, there is a very real risk here for Apple and they're digging their own regulatory grave by behaving like this.

And they can't dig fast enough IMO. This should have been handled years ago when it was already obviously a problem.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#197

Post by Sargos » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

almost_usual wrote: post #109

aaomidi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic agreed to the App Store terms and guidelines freely lol.

are you suggesting they were threatened?

A choice between "Allowing your users to use your software" and "Nobody can use your software" is not really a choice at all. Even the mob gives you a choice, so maybe they aren't so bad after all?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#198

Post by Leherenn » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

How does it technically work? Is the app forcibly removed from every phone that has it, or is it just not downloadable/upgradable anymore. If the latter, can people who have it already keep on playing or are there some other obstacles involved?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#199

Post by bosswipe » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #21

FreakyT wrote: post #4

Really hoping regulators crack down hard on Apple's clearly anticompetitive practices. If Apple allowed sideloading the entire point would be, of course, moot, but Apple's continued refusal to allow this is really the biggest problem, IMO.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

The question will be if developers start abandoning the platform will you be a happy user if you're unable to access popular apps on your locked down Apple computer.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#200

Post by Benjamin_Dobell » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

naravara wrote: post #128

untog wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very sure Epic saw this coming. I assume they, and many others, are spoiling for a fight with Apple over this and are willing to take this risk in bringing public opinion with them.

This seems ill-advised for Epic, in particular. The fight they're picking will logically end in a regulatory hammer coming down and that hammer is going to hit Epic a lot harder than Apple just because Epic is even more reliant on extracting revenue from being a platform owner than Apple is.

Epic's platform is Unreal Engine. The key difference is Unreal Engine is not the only game engine. You can use another game engine and gain access to the exact same user base. You could certainly argue Epic Games have made anti-competitive plays. However, they're not stupid, they even fund their "competitors" https://gamefromscratch.com/godot-receives-epic-megagrant/.