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Why is there only one Snap Store?

merlijn.sebrechts.be

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Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#121

Post by spanhandler »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #113
spanhandler wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the one major difference I'd say is not currently common on Linux. Could be easily solved by keeping package list databases in $HOME - the only reason root is required nowdays is because these are usually kept as 1 copy per system. As I posted elsewhere, I think it'd actually be very hard to replicate the experience of Homebrew on macOS, on Linux, specifically for GUI programs, because not only is the the L…

> think it'd actually be very hard to replicate the experience of Homebrew on macOS, on Linux, specifically for GUI programs, because not only is the the Linux GUI (and related multimedia capabilities, for that matter) so much more fragmented than macOS (where all that ships as one big, stable package Curious about this, since as far as audio goes, as long as there's PulseAudio on the system, all others tend to have…

> Curious about this, since as far as audio goes, as long as there's PulseAudio on the system, all others tend to have compatibility with it in mind.

There are hold-out ALSA users (even Linux OSS users still around, I think) and I gather people who need well-performing audio for Serious Work (particularly anything latency-sensitive or requiring that multiple streams be mixed at high quality without errors), and have decided to use Linux for it, end up having to replace or bypass PulseAudio one way or another (this info may be out of date, but given PA's history, I kinda doubt it).

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#122

Post by jdbernard »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #3
ISL wrote: post #2

Debian user here, who has apparently missed the memo: What do snaps do that apt doesn't?

they bundle all of their dependencies inside the snap, so even if the projects the snap depends on makes breaking changes and you update your system with those changes, the snap will still work. Snaps also update on the fly without user interaction, which some people like and other people hate. Personally, I think Flatpak makes more sense than Snap. Snap's all tied up with Canonical

I don't think anyone is upset about the ability of a snap app to update without user intervention. It's the lack of choice. You're forced to take updates.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#123

Post by abnercoimbre »

blendergeek wrote: post #117
donor20 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow - strong language. Can I ask - do you contribute meaningfully to any open source packages? Do you buy software at a significant commercial level? I've noticed this sort of total absolutest, outraged, scorched earth style sometimes comes from the free riders. At least in some businesses I've worked with - if you can eliminate customers that approach things in this way your staff are happier, your life more relaxed…

> The same "you are dead to me" ragers are often knee deep in google account / xbox account / netflix go anywhere accounts etc. While I am not GP, I am what of these people. I stay as far away as I can from cloud accounts unless I have the option to self host. I self host Nextcloud and I am soon going to self-host Matrix. I use F-Droid for my phone apps.

> [...] and I am soon going to self-host Matrix.

I self-hosted and later switched to having the Matrix staff maintain my chat server [0]. I assume this is a reasonable middle-ground between self-hosting maintenance headaches and giving up your ownership for a free Discord server.

[0] https://element.io/plans-and-pricing

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#124

Post by sebastos »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #93
barrkel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A mounted FS per installed application so you can run different versions side by side. I like it for large standalone apps, less so for command-line utilities. It easily beats untarring some third-party thing to /opt.

> A mounted FS per installed application so you can run different versions side by side. Does it strike anyone else as very telling that people looked at the problem of "we can't install more than one version of an application at a time because of how we structure our filesystem and hardcode paths" and decided that the solution was "let's give each application its own filesystem!"?

I know, what's up with this? I always feel like the systems guys must know something I don't, and that it would be way harder than I'm imagining. But like.. haven't we learned enough in the last 30 years to know that we need something smarter for mutually dependent pieces of software? Why is nobody trying to do this?

I get that Docker, Snap, Flatpak, etc. are expedient in the here and now. But shouldn't we be trying to rebuild everything on top of nix, and then make nix completely transparent to most users?

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#125

Post by coreblocks »

jeroenhd wrote: post #92
1_person wrote: post #67

That reminds me of the stake Ubuntu Core was born with in its heart: > An Ubuntu SSO account is required to create the first user on an Ubuntu Core installation. They just keep flinging shit at nothing and hoping to hit a wall they can build a gate in. They're trying to boil the frog slowly with Snap on the Server/Desktop branches. There is no possible genuine motive for these maneuverings to be in the position of ga…

To be completely honest, if Canonical ever wants the theoretical "year of the Linux desktop" to happen, they need a way to get proper cloud accounts working. A big part of the value of Apple's ecosystem is iCloud. Microsoft has done the same thing with the syncing and cross platform capabilities of their Microsoft Accounts. Most Linux users today don't care much if they need to create separate email, cloud storage, b…

Honestly I think it’s simpler than that. The Linux desktop experience is just terrible... I have never successfully installed a Linux distro without having to fiddle with some boot flag or some config file. Every major Linux desktop environment has been unreliable at best. Software support is fragmented across dozens of distros.

I think WSL has been the biggest win for Linux on the desktop, but ironically it’s on windows.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#127

Post by roywashere »

blendergeek wrote: post #117
donor20 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow - strong language. Can I ask - do you contribute meaningfully to any open source packages? Do you buy software at a significant commercial level? I've noticed this sort of total absolutest, outraged, scorched earth style sometimes comes from the free riders. At least in some businesses I've worked with - if you can eliminate customers that approach things in this way your staff are happier, your life more relaxed…

> The same "you are dead to me" ragers are often knee deep in google account / xbox account / netflix go anywhere accounts etc. While I am not GP, I am what of these people. I stay as far away as I can from cloud accounts unless I have the option to self host. I self host Nextcloud and I am soon going to self-host Matrix. I use F-Droid for my phone apps.

I think it is great to use F-Droid or Nextcloud if you want to! You can also use Debian or Arch if you want to. Why is it so bad that Ubuntu tries to innovate in their own way? It's not that there are no other linuxes to use?

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#128

Post by galgalesh »

rosywoozlechan wrote: post #74
Conan_Kudo wrote: post #64

"Although they invested significant resources in open sourcing Launchpad, there is still only one instance of Launchpad running and they have not received any significant contributions from non-Canonical employees." For what it's worth, there is another Launchpad instance in existence: https://quickbuild.io/ From personal experience, I found it functionally impossible to get a local instance working when I tried a fe…

Launchpad is also objectively more complex and hard to use than alternatives, and subjectively I'd say it's ugly and looks dated. Launchpad isn't probably something people want to use because of product design, and thus there's not much activity around it outside of Canonical. I think it would be silly to assume that a separate project that is liked wouldn't get traction outside of Canonical because of their experien…

> Launchpad is also objectively more complex and hard to use than alternatives, and subjectively I'd say it's ugly and looks dated

Launchpad is _really_ old though. When it was open sourced, there were very few alternatives and those were often even more complex and harder to use.

I think part of the reason why it was almost never used was because it does so much: project management, bug trackers, build service, package hosting, ISO and distro building, ..

If you only need a few of these features, you are much better of using alternatives with a smaller scope.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#130

Post by 1_person »

donor20 wrote: post #100
1_person wrote: post #67

That reminds me of the stake Ubuntu Core was born with in its heart: > An Ubuntu SSO account is required to create the first user on an Ubuntu Core installation. They just keep flinging shit at nothing and hoping to hit a wall they can build a gate in. They're trying to boil the frog slowly with Snap on the Server/Desktop branches. There is no possible genuine motive for these maneuverings to be in the position of ga…

Wow - strong language. Can I ask - do you contribute meaningfully to any open source packages? Do you buy software at a significant commercial level? I've noticed this sort of total absolutest, outraged, scorched earth style sometimes comes from the free riders. At least in some businesses I've worked with - if you can eliminate customers that approach things in this way your staff are happier, your life more relaxed…

> Can I ask - do you contribute meaningfully to any open source packages?

Yes.

> Do you buy software at a significant commercial level?

No.

> I think Redhat did the gatekeeper to 30 billion route.

Where's the RedHat app store?

Which version of RHEL is targeted at embedded devices yet requires an internet connection to install to validate your SSO credentials?

Their business model is support and to my knowledge they have made no attempt to maneuver into a gatekeeping position in envy of Apple and Google's app store rents.

> What's weird is part of the value ADD for other companies in the tech space is the cloud account that you are railing against.

Yes, they've been told the cloud is this magic thing which allows them to abdicate administrative and operational responsibility for their infrastructure if they just pay 10x as much. And they believed it. If Canonical wants to milk that cow, good luck and godspeed. Debian awaits. I am not afraid of complexity, I know the "cloud" score, and have no interest in abdicating any authority over my personal systems or systems I am professionally responsible for.

> The same "you are dead to me" ragers are often knee deep in google account / xbox account / netflix go anywhere accounts etc.

I don't own a console. I don't have social media accounts. I don't subscribe to media services. I host every network, compute, and data service I consume to the extent that is practical -- moreover, they are all publicly available and free to use without advertising or donation. My condolences for the frustration you've experienced monetizing that straw man, though.

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