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Epic direct payment on mobile

epicgames.com

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Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#221

Post by ocdtrekkie »

legohead wrote: post #69
ary wrote: post #14

My guess is that this is a gambit to force Apple’s hand during a time when there is the most intense antitrust pressure over the App Store since it’s launch. If Apple cracks down then it’s just more fuel for the antitrust fire, and potentially evidence in court. If they allow it then it’s precedent that others can use to employ the same tactic. Either way it seems to me Epic is taking a calculated risk to induce chan…

Apple has to move against Epic here. If they are acting fairly with all developers (which was one of the questions to Tim Cook), then letting this be would be showing favoritism towards Epic. Or...make a sudden update to their TOS

If they take Fortnite down though, it's an open and shut antitrust case: Because even our broken antitrust law in the US understands consumers getting higher prices because of monopolies. This is why Epic is so loudly showcasing the price savings of bypassing Apple.

If Apple takes down Fortnite here, the DOJ takes down the App Store.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#222

Post by Wowfunhappy »

alexeldeib wrote: post #155
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Apple has to do to fix this is allow sideloading. They don't need to change the App Store's rules—they can make them more stringent, actually—and you can set up your child's phone to block non-App-Store installations. Heck, Epic would probably cave and accept the cost to keep Fortnite in the App Store; they tried to go around Google Play, and it seemingly didn't work out.

From the original article, this also sidesteps google play.

Sure, I just don't think Epic has a very strong argument there. I mean, who knows what lawmakers will think, but if I was the one to decide, I would tell Epic tough luck.

Consumers can choose to side-step the Play Store with a few taps. iOS users would need to throw out their phones.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#223

Post by ascagnel_ »

Fargren wrote: post #208
dogma1138 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason I use an iPhone is that it doesn’t allow side loading out side of development applications and has a curated closed store. I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I’m also very well aware of the fact that while Apple scalps developers it’s also the reason why my devices get security updates for 6 ye…

> I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I don't understand this, can you explain why? As long as you don't sideload on your own phone, why would having the option be a problem?

When you're stuck being the "computer person" in a family, it means you need to manage things like people's laptops that have somehow associated .exe files with MS Word or a game suddenly starting in the background and making a bunch of noise on Android (I've dealt with these first-hand). There's a market for devices that give power users some access, but not so much they can cause problems. Right now, I somewhat selfishly suggest iPhones/iPads to family members, because they live near enough to Apple stores that I don't have to be the one supporting them, and that the devices are harder to put into a state where the unpredictable starts happening.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#225

Post by JumpCrisscross »

aweb wrote: post #215
dogma1138 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason I use an iPhone is that it doesn’t allow side loading out side of development applications and has a curated closed store. I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I’m also very well aware of the fact that while Apple scalps developers it’s also the reason why my devices get security updates for 6 ye…

Sorry but I'm not sure you understand how sideloading works on Android. You have to enable it explicitly for any app you want to sideload from (eg. your browser for a downloaded app, or an alternative app store like F-Droid). Afterwards, every app installation still needs to be manually approved and thus cannot be done hidden in the background. Seems pretty safe to me while still allowing more freedom to power users.

> You have to enable it explicitly for any app you want to sideload from

Problem is e.g. Facebook will immediately require side loading so they can install all manner of spyware that wouldn’t make it through the App Store’s vetting process.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#226

Post by pb7 »

Fargren wrote: post #208
dogma1138 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason I use an iPhone is that it doesn’t allow side loading out side of development applications and has a curated closed store. I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I’m also very well aware of the fact that while Apple scalps developers it’s also the reason why my devices get security updates for 6 ye…

> I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I don't understand this, can you explain why? As long as you don't sideload on your own phone, why would having the option be a problem?

Presumably because app developers might choose not to go through the curated App Store route and in turn, cut corners or do shady things just because they can. Imagine if Tik Tok was only available to side load -- they'll scrape whatever they want/can and teens aren't going to risk FOMOing for that alone.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#227

Post by Wowfunhappy »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #225
aweb wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not sure you understand how sideloading works on Android. You have to enable it explicitly for any app you want to sideload from (eg. your browser for a downloaded app, or an alternative app store like F-Droid). Afterwards, every app installation still needs to be manually approved and thus cannot be done hidden in the background. Seems pretty safe to me while still allowing more freedom to power users.

> You have to enable it explicitly for any app you want to sideload from Problem is e.g. Facebook will immediately require side loading so they can install all manner of spyware that wouldn’t make it through the App Store’s vetting process.

No they won't. Facebook is in the Play Store on Android, and they used the Windows 10 Store up until they abandoned their desktop client. They want the largest user-base possible, which means they want finding and installing their app to be as frictionless as possible.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#228

Post by dogma1138 »

aweb wrote: post #215
dogma1138 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason I use an iPhone is that it doesn’t allow side loading out side of development applications and has a curated closed store. I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I’m also very well aware of the fact that while Apple scalps developers it’s also the reason why my devices get security updates for 6 ye…

Sorry but I'm not sure you understand how sideloading works on Android. You have to enable it explicitly for any app you want to sideload from (eg. your browser for a downloaded app, or an alternative app store like F-Droid). Afterwards, every app installation still needs to be manually approved and thus cannot be done hidden in the background. Seems pretty safe to me while still allowing more freedom to power users.

I have android devices too I know that all you need to do is tick a box, and there are apps on the Google Play Store that literally direct you to do that. Not to mention once that is a possibility the system is less secure, you btw can also side load apps without that tick box if you know what you are doing especially if developer options have been enabled.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#229

Post by dogma1138 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #210
dogma1138 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason I use an iPhone is that it doesn’t allow side loading out side of development applications and has a curated closed store. I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I’m also very well aware of the fact that while Apple scalps developers it’s also the reason why my devices get security updates for 6 ye…

They can, if they exploit an iOS vulnerability, as has been done many times in the past. Is this so different from using vulnerabilities to bypass a permission prompt?

Yes because on Android it’s much easier and also requires much less complicated/expensive exploits abuse including leveraging the users themselves.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#230

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ascagnel_ wrote: post #223
Fargren wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I don't understand this, can you explain why? As long as you don't sideload on your own phone, why would having the option be a problem?

When you're stuck being the "computer person" in a family, it means you need to manage things like people's laptops that have somehow associated .exe files with MS Word or a game suddenly starting in the background and making a bunch of noise on Android (I've dealt with these first-hand). There's a market for devices that give power users some access, but not so much they can cause problems. Right now, I somewhat sel…

Chromebooks also seem to fill this need fairly well—I know a lot of people in your situation choose them for family members. This appears to work despite the fact that you can unlock a Chromebook's bootloader and do whatever you like.
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