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Epic direct payment on mobile

epicgames.com

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Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#211

Post by [deleted] »

dogma1138 wrote: post #203
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Apple has to do to fix this is allow sideloading. They don't need to change the App Store's rules—they can make them more stringent, actually—and you can set up your child's phone to block non-App-Store installations. Heck, Epic would probably cave and accept the cost to keep Fortnite in the App Store; they tried to go around Google Play, and it seemingly didn't work out.

The main reason I use an iPhone is that it doesn’t allow side loading out side of development applications and has a curated closed store. I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I’m also very well aware of the fact that while Apple scalps developers it’s also the reason why my devices get security updates for 6 ye…

[deleted]

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#212

Post by rashkov »

zacwest wrote: post #60
hugey010 wrote: post #24

Per the App Store Review guidelines: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#una... If payment is taken IN the app, not using Apple Pay, and not to an approved non-profit, it's in direct violation and should be removed. I've had to update multiple apps that took donations, in order to pay for development work, and Apple absolutely won't let that fly anymore. On Apple's behalf, this unacceptable, ille…

Unless you're Amazon, in which case you're absolutely allowed to sell digital goods (e.g. movies, TV shows) without using In-App Purchases. The rules are unfairly applied.

Are you sure about that? I just checked and I was not able to buy digital goods using the amazon app.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#213

Post by Epskampie »

gilrain wrote: post #204
PavleMiha wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because then Apple would have to implement alternative payment methods into the App Store, which seems unreasonable. They're arguing that inside the app it's the developer's responsibility to handle payments however they see fit.

The point is that they're not applying that argument to their own storefront.

The difference is that you’re free to buy your game via another channel on pc. Epic is not free to distribute via another channel on iOS.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#214

Post by askafriend »

kevingadd wrote: post #176
askafriend wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consoles and marketplaces like Steam take 30% of digital game sales.

Valve changed their policies to provide a volume discount for big titles: https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30/18120577/valve-steam-gam...

Yes, a little over a year ago for some successful titles.

It just goes to show 30% is far from unusual - especially in the gaming industry. In fact 30% seems to be the benchmark.

Retailers like Best Buy take 30% of video game sales too.

Here's an article with a useful graphic that shows the cut through common gaming distribution channels: https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut...

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#215

Post by aweb »

dogma1138 wrote: post #203
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Apple has to do to fix this is allow sideloading. They don't need to change the App Store's rules—they can make them more stringent, actually—and you can set up your child's phone to block non-App-Store installations. Heck, Epic would probably cave and accept the cost to keep Fortnite in the App Store; they tried to go around Google Play, and it seemingly didn't work out.

The main reason I use an iPhone is that it doesn’t allow side loading out side of development applications and has a curated closed store. I want an ecosystem that works and I can rely on including knowing that little to no one can side load a malicious application onto the device. I’m also very well aware of the fact that while Apple scalps developers it’s also the reason why my devices get security updates for 6 ye…

Sorry but I'm not sure you understand how sideloading works on Android. You have to enable it explicitly for any app you want to sideload from (eg. your browser for a downloaded app, or an alternative app store like F-Droid). Afterwards, every app installation still needs to be manually approved and thus cannot be done hidden in the background. Seems pretty safe to me while still allowing more freedom to power users.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#216

Post by askafriend »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #200
askafriend wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consoles and marketplaces like Steam take 30% of digital game sales.

If that is true, how do you explain that they are not implementing this new payment option on those platforms?

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut...

For games, 30% is not unusual for distribution.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#217

Post by nottorp »

u10 wrote: post #180
nottorp wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Games will not have first class support for linux for years to come, this is not indicative of the linux platform, simply that the market is tiny and developer time is better spent on supporting platforms that are widely used. The fact that there are only X% of gamers on Linux/Mac OS may be justification for you, but why would I go near a store that doesn't support my platform of choice? As I said, they're not offe…

First, you shouldn't take this so personal. Should I be calling Epic game store or Steam bad platforms if they don't support Windows 95? Unfortunately, you are not the target audience, and expecting developers/publishers to pony up the dev time and money to placate an incredibly small portion of the market is a fantasy. Maybe this will change in the future, who knows. I also take issue with you calling exclusive game…

> Unfortunately, you are not the target audience, and expecting developers/publishers to pony up the dev time and money to placate an incredibly small portion of the market is a fantasy.

... except both Steam and GoG can do it isn't it? :)

> I also take issue with you calling exclusive games 'bribes'. They are looking out for their own self interest, and that includes not paying Steam a 30% cut on all of their sales. It's called competition, not a bribe.

No, the exclusives are paid money upfront on a certain amount of estimated sales, which they don't have to return no matter what the actual sales are. They're not going exclusive just for the lower commission.

Ref: https://gamerant.com/epic-games-store-exclusive-deal/

The juicy bit: When doing the math, looking at Fig's stake (50%) and the 85% dividend rate (how much Fig gives to investors), this means that Epic Games will have had to have given Snapshot Games approximately $2,247,058 for the Phoenix Point exclusivity rights.

> Also, denying that Fortnite has not made its mark on society is missing the forest for the trees. I don't play it, I have no desire to play it, but I can see how important it's been to the industry and how much it's effected society.

I'm sure the society would have been better without IAPs. Not all the marks something leaves are desirable.

Also, it's "affected". Random ref: https://www.diffen.com/difference/Affected_vs_Effected

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#218

Post by 013a »

gilrain wrote: post #201
013a wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut? If you follow Tim Sweeney and Epic's history surrounding "app store cuts", you'd know that they've always stood on the side of developers. The EGS stands among the lowest app store cuts of any marketplace, at 12%, and Tim has become visibly angry during public appearances concerning Ap…

"Is what's good for the (Apple) goose good for the (Epic Games Store) gander?" "No, but we'll screw you for less than Steam." 12% may be less than 30%, but it's still the same business practice that they're decrying when it's applied to them. That's hypocrisy.

What business practice is that? Providing hosting, distribution, payment processing, and marketing to an audience of millions of customers, then asking for some amount of revenue in return?

The core issues at play with Apple have always been: (1) there's no competition, and (2) 30% is too high. The EGS makes strides in fixing both of these issues: Game developers are not forced to release on EGS, as there are a dozen competitors on Windows, and the revenue share is now 12%. Epic does sign exclusivity deals with third-parties, which often have multi-million dollar values to them (they paid ~$10M to Remedy for one-year exclusive rights to Control); again, while we can argue about the negative impact this has on consumers, its very positive for developers.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#219

Post by zamadatix »

cloudking wrote: post #47

Maybe the Apple cut is too high, but I don't think it's unreasonable for them to take some cut. They are providing the distribution platform to get your app to millions of users, it's not free for them to provide that service. They have their own server, bandwidth and employee costs too.

If it's a reasonable cut for the service then they should have no fear of competition from other payment services.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#220

Post by deagle50 »

gok wrote: post #167

Curious what Epic would do if game developers started offering an option in their games to just not pay the 5% Unreal Engine tax and passed the savings onto consumers.

1. Big gulf between 5% and 30% 2. Epic doesn't own your customers 3. You don't have to use Unreal Engine.
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