Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Epic direct payment on mobile

epicgames.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 371 posts

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#131

Post by tln »

nottorp wrote: post #79
qppo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Epic, they are/were offering developers a better deal than Steam. And they've done far more for gaming over the past decade than Valve, which hasn't been able to successfully innovate in the last two.

However, they're not offering ME a better deal. Let's see: - games aren't cheaper on the Epic store, in spite of the allegedly smaller cut the store is supposed to take - they're Windows only (and here comes the China reference, they only know about Windows in there) - their store still doesn't have a shopping cart (i may not be current on this)... reeks of incompetence? Can you trust them with your credit card info?…

Epic's been dropping 2 free games a week on their store. Those are cheaper :)

I have ~24 games in my Epic games library from this and 6 work on Macs. Not exactly Windows only (but way way moreso than Steam)

WRT the shopping cart, I think you're reading too much into not being able to buy 2 games at once. FWIW I've NEVER bought two games at once on Steam. I buy most of my stuff on Amazon without using a cart.

Exclusivity kinda sucks, although at least the PC/Mac platforms can support both Epic and Steam and GoG! Sucks even harder for PS or Xbox players.

WRT contribution to gaming, the Unreal Engine seems like a small contribution...

Lastly, Fortnite isn't to everyone's tastes but it is IMO a very fun and unique game with the build mechanic. Free-to-play implies pay-to-win and that's not the case. Virtual goods are cosmetic not stuff like levelling up faster

PS. I do prefer Steam and appreciate Valve's contributions

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#132

Post by gamblor956 »

nottorp wrote: post #79
qppo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Epic, they are/were offering developers a better deal than Steam. And they've done far more for gaming over the past decade than Valve, which hasn't been able to successfully innovate in the last two.

However, they're not offering ME a better deal. Let's see: - games aren't cheaper on the Epic store, in spite of the allegedly smaller cut the store is supposed to take - they're Windows only (and here comes the China reference, they only know about Windows in there) - their store still doesn't have a shopping cart (i may not be current on this)... reeks of incompetence? Can you trust them with your credit card info?…

Your only meaningful point is the first one, that games aren't cheaper.

The rest are not related to price. A shopping cart, for example, is just a feature. And the Apple and Linux gaming markets are so small that its generally not worth developing for them unless compatibility comes free with your engine. The EGS store was intended primarily as a sales vehicle for Fortnite, with support for other games being grafted on over time...the same way that the Steam store got its start. Steam used to be an utter piece of shit too, and it took years for them to get to where they are today. (Note: Epic's Unreal Engine actually does support Apple and Linux, however the anti-cheat mechanisms in Fortnite wouldn't work on either platform, and given the almost-daily updates required it would require a fairly hefty user base on those platforms to justify support.)

By they way, Epic contributed Unreal Engine to the world. Only a few thousand games are made on it, including the world's current most popular game, Fortnite. Other notable games using the current version of Unreal Engine include Crash Bandicoot, the newest Batman game, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Gears of War 4 and 5, Hellblade, Kingdom Hearts, Minecraft Dungeons, NBA 2K, PUBG, Sea of Thieves, Star Wars JFO, System Shock remake, The Outer Worlds, and oddly enough Youshi's Crafted World.

UE3 was around long enough that all of the original Mass Effects used the engine. Other notable games on the UE3 engine include the Medal of Honor series, Mortal Kombat, Rocket League, XCOM, Tom Clancy games, Infinity Blade (one of the games credited with making iOS a gaming powerhouse), Gears of War 1-3, Devil May Cry, Borderlands 1 and 2, and the older Batman Arkham games.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#133

Post by MattRix »

rurounijones wrote: post #67
gsich wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can install software from other sources just fine. Doesn't have to be the same software. But why is having the Epic store such a problem?

You seem to be moving the goalposts here. > Epic has no "walled garden". Epic is explicitly a walled garden regarding the games it has paid to be exclusive within that walled gardren (Permanently or temporarily). > The PC is an open platform. An iPhone is not. You are conflating hardware / software here. PC hardware is an open platform. The software is running on it is not necessarily. You could be running Linux or W…

That is not what a walled garden is. If the developers have a choice of where to sell their software, and choose to make it exclusive, that is totally fine! It's their software, they can choose how it is sold.

It's only a walled garden if there is no other option to distribute your games but with that company... so either an enforced monopoly (Apple) or de-facto monopoly (Steam, but this is arguable).

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#134

Post by orliesaurus »

I wonder if the only reason for having "both" payment systems in place, is some kind of unwritten rule (or secret handshake between Epic Games and their Apple account manager of some sorts) that will allow them to keep Fortnite on the app-store!

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#135

Post by mehlmao »

coldcode wrote: post #101
epaga wrote: post #3

My money is on Apple cracking down hard on this. It looks clearly as if Epic remotely activated this direct payment option, thereby bypassing Apple's App Review. Apple will not take kindly to this. Best case scenario for Epic (and Fortnite players): they invite Sweeney in for some hard negotiations. Worst case: Fortnite ends up getting removed from iOS for this.

Pull it is exactly what I would do. Apple gets a cut of the paid apps, but $0 from free apps who show ads. Take away getting a cut from the paid apps then free apps suddenly cost the developers money—no more free apps. Imagine going to Walmart and telling them what you want them to give you all the revenue. Walmart will tell you exactly what they want to pay you, or you can leave. Maybe 30% is too much, but 0% is a t…

Exactly, in the days before the web.

The majority of software sold for computers isn't sold through the Microsoft store or Apple store, it's through other channels with much lower costs. Apple won't let you load apps onto the hardware you own unless they go through the App store and pay the Apple tax.

Developers (and users) shouldn't settle for "better than retail, even if it's worse than the open web".

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#136

Post by tadzik_ »

qppo wrote: post #44
superkuh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, another monopolist trying to fill their garden. Epic is literally buying the companies behind long established games, removing game support for alternative OSes, and eventually only allowing access from "the epic store". No matter who wins between Epic and Apple human people lose. They're both walled garden monopolists.

To be fair to Epic, they are/were offering developers a better deal than Steam. And they've done far more for gaming over the past decade than Valve, which hasn't been able to successfully innovate in the last two.

> And they've done far more for gaming over the past decade than Valve, which hasn't been able to successfully innovate in the last two

Uhm, what?

Epic has delivered Unreal Engine 4 – good for them. They've also released a successful battle royale, piggybacking off of other developers' success and rolled out a crappy store/launcher, a straight downgrade from every single competitor, that they actively force on people by literally buying their portfolio. Nobody would ever install EGS if the monopolist didn't bully their way onto the market.

Meanwhile Valve has been pushing VR, extending Steam (with Proton, Remote Play etc) to the point where it's actually an added value over the games you buy on it, attempting (successfully or not, depending on who you ask) to revolutionize gaming controllers... what exactly did Epic do for gaming, other than release the next iteration of their already successful engine?

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#137

Post by input_sh »

elwell wrote: post #94
virtue3 wrote: post #75

I love how they are "passing the savings down to us" from a non existing digital item that they set the price of. Ugh. Anyway, this should be absolutely fascinating to watch how the antitrust cases against the app stores go!

That's a little myopic; it's just another business model. They could instead price an app itself at $99 or whatever is desired to support development, marketing, profit, etc costs, and not have any in-app purchases.

If anything, game companies are doing exactly the opposite by charging full price for a game (mostly ~$60) and filling them up with in-game purchases anyway. Loot boxes, skins and other cosmetics, battle passes, etc.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#138

Post by cortesoft »

gutnor wrote: post #102
theli0nheart wrote: post #9

This puts Apple in a very tough spot. Last week, Tim Cook was questioned in an antitrust hearing re: Apple's anticompetitive practices (along with Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sundar Pichai). The spotlight is already pointing right at them, so any move they make here is going to be noticed by lawmakers. If they remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple will probably be seen as the bad guy. After all, Epic is not…

I'm scared of that though. Although on one end I would like to buy my kindle books straight from the app and play xcloud games, I'm thinking of the dodgier companies. Right now I have little to worry about when I leave my kid playing a game, all the payment need to go through Apple or at least the offending app will not stay up for too long. I want Apple to be forced to come up with a fairer solution (eg: same api, b…

If your kids tried to pay through an alternative payment system, they would have to enter their credit card info.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#139

Post by Fogest »

fenomas wrote: post #86
sawaruna wrote: post #70

>Does a new payment method on mobile mean purchases there are less safe? >No. Thousands of apps on the App Store approved by Apple accept direct payments, including commonly used apps like Amazon, Grubhub, Nike SNKRS, Best Buy, DoorDash, Fandango, McDonalds, Uber, Lyft, and StubHub. We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps. [0] All of these services provide something physical. You…

> Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut? Are you asking whether Epic will start "allowing" people to buy PC games via direct purchase or steam or twitch or GOG the way they've been doing for decades?

Yeah I don't get their point, developers can already go and release the game on their own website or through whatever channels they want without issue. If they sign an exclusivity deal with Epic that is their own choice, they were not forced to make that choice like on the Apple platform. EGS also charges a lot less than their competitors do anyway.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#140

Post by cameronbrown »

u10 wrote: post #96
nottorp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, they're not offering ME a better deal. Let's see: - games aren't cheaper on the Epic store, in spite of the allegedly smaller cut the store is supposed to take - they're Windows only (and here comes the China reference, they only know about Windows in there) - their store still doesn't have a shopping cart (i may not be current on this)... reeks of incompetence? Can you trust them with your credit card info?…

>games aren't cheaper on the Epic store, in spite of the allegedly smaller cut the store is supposed to take They are literally handing out free games, Total War: Troy, a brand new game, its free today >they're Windows only (and here comes the China reference, they only know about Windows in there) Games will not have first class support for linux for years to come, this is not indicative of the linux platform, simpl…

> Games will not have first class support for linux for years to come, this is not indicative of the linux platform, simply that the market is tiny and developer time is better spent on supporting platforms that are widely used.

Before EGS rolled around, Linux momentum on getting games support was amazing. Steam lets you run the vast majority of games on Linux now.

Post reply on HN