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Epic direct payment on mobile

epicgames.com

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Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#101

Post by coldcode »

epaga wrote: post #3

My money is on Apple cracking down hard on this. It looks clearly as if Epic remotely activated this direct payment option, thereby bypassing Apple's App Review. Apple will not take kindly to this. Best case scenario for Epic (and Fortnite players): they invite Sweeney in for some hard negotiations. Worst case: Fortnite ends up getting removed from iOS for this.

Pull it is exactly what I would do. Apple gets a cut of the paid apps, but $0 from free apps who show ads. Take away getting a cut from the paid apps then free apps suddenly cost the developers money—no more free apps.

Imagine going to Walmart and telling them what you want them to give you all the revenue. Walmart will tell you exactly what they want to pay you, or you can leave.

Maybe 30% is too much, but 0% is a terrible idea.

In the old days before the web I had to pay up to 70% for distribution for my apps. If I was lucky I might get my cut 3-6 months later, plus I had to pay for the packaging and shipping to the warehouse and take it back if they didn't sell enough. 30% seems like a bargain.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#102

Post by gutnor »

theli0nheart wrote: post #9

This puts Apple in a very tough spot. Last week, Tim Cook was questioned in an antitrust hearing re: Apple's anticompetitive practices (along with Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sundar Pichai). The spotlight is already pointing right at them, so any move they make here is going to be noticed by lawmakers. If they remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple will probably be seen as the bad guy. After all, Epic is not…

I'm scared of that though. Although on one end I would like to buy my kindle books straight from the app and play xcloud games, I'm thinking of the dodgier companies.

Right now I have little to worry about when I leave my kid playing a game, all the payment need to go through Apple or at least the offending app will not stay up for too long.

I want Apple to be forced to come up with a fairer solution (eg: same api, but different payment provider) rather than being strong-armed into getting rid of the current protection from dodgy apps abusing dark ux pattern.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#103

Post by smnrchrds »

jamil7 wrote: post #95
balfirevic wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO they can keep the 30% but they should just allow apps to offer other payment methods. Would this just result in every app being free, but using (non-apple) IAP to gain access to any content beyond the opening screen?

I think it'd have to have to caveats, e.g if offering payment you have to also offer apple payment at the same rate to the user.

Not at the same rate. That would defeat the purpose from the consumer's point of view. They should be able to set a higher price for Apple Pay to cover the extra 30%.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#104

Post by Wowfunhappy »

douglaswlance wrote: post #93
theli0nheart wrote: post #9

This puts Apple in a very tough spot. Last week, Tim Cook was questioned in an antitrust hearing re: Apple's anticompetitive practices (along with Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sundar Pichai). The spotlight is already pointing right at them, so any move they make here is going to be noticed by lawmakers. If they remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple will probably be seen as the bad guy. After all, Epic is not…

>If they keep Fortnite on the App Store, they're going to need to make a rule change to allow alternative payment methods within apps. That is already allowed. It's a common misconception.

It is? For digital purchases?

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#106

Post by extesy »

nottorp wrote: post #79
qppo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Epic, they are/were offering developers a better deal than Steam. And they've done far more for gaming over the past decade than Valve, which hasn't been able to successfully innovate in the last two.

However, they're not offering ME a better deal. Let's see: - games aren't cheaper on the Epic store, in spite of the allegedly smaller cut the store is supposed to take - they're Windows only (and here comes the China reference, they only know about Windows in there) - their store still doesn't have a shopping cart (i may not be current on this)... reeks of incompetence? Can you trust them with your credit card info?…

I think you might want to read this[1] excellent series on Epic and their ecosystem. It covers most of your questions.

[1] https://www.matthewball.vc/all/epicgamesprimermaster

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#107

Post by JimDabell »

nrmitchi wrote: post #80
sawaruna wrote: post #70

>Does a new payment method on mobile mean purchases there are less safe? >No. Thousands of apps on the App Store approved by Apple accept direct payments, including commonly used apps like Amazon, Grubhub, Nike SNKRS, Best Buy, DoorDash, Fandango, McDonalds, Uber, Lyft, and StubHub. We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps. [0] All of these services provide something physical. You…

> All of these services provide something physical. You can't buy Kindle Books, for example, on Amazon's app on iOS. This a bit disingenuous. I don't see how it's disingenuous, the question was "are these purchases less safe". They said "No, and here are some examples". Whether the item is physical or not, I don't see how it makes the transaction "less safe"?

Physical goods need to be shipped somewhere that a thief can receive them. Digital goods don’t. That makes it much easier and safer to make fraudulent purchases for digital goods.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#108

Post by mrpippy »

douglaswlance wrote: post #93
theli0nheart wrote: post #9

This puts Apple in a very tough spot. Last week, Tim Cook was questioned in an antitrust hearing re: Apple's anticompetitive practices (along with Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sundar Pichai). The spotlight is already pointing right at them, so any move they make here is going to be noticed by lawmakers. If they remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple will probably be seen as the bad guy. After all, Epic is not…

>If they keep Fortnite on the App Store, they're going to need to make a rule change to allow alternative payment methods within apps. That is already allowed. It's a common misconception.

No, alternate payment methods are not allowed for selling digital goods.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#109

Post by jamil7 »

smnrchrds wrote: post #103
jamil7 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it'd have to have to caveats, e.g if offering payment you have to also offer apple payment at the same rate to the user.

Not at the same rate. That would defeat the purpose from the consumer's point of view. They should be able to set a higher price for Apple Pay to cover the extra 30%.

I think we're in agreement? I just worded it weirdly.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#110

Post by Wowfunhappy »

gutnor wrote: post #102
theli0nheart wrote: post #9

This puts Apple in a very tough spot. Last week, Tim Cook was questioned in an antitrust hearing re: Apple's anticompetitive practices (along with Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sundar Pichai). The spotlight is already pointing right at them, so any move they make here is going to be noticed by lawmakers. If they remove Fortnite from the App Store, Apple will probably be seen as the bad guy. After all, Epic is not…

I'm scared of that though. Although on one end I would like to buy my kindle books straight from the app and play xcloud games, I'm thinking of the dodgier companies. Right now I have little to worry about when I leave my kid playing a game, all the payment need to go through Apple or at least the offending app will not stay up for too long. I want Apple to be forced to come up with a fairer solution (eg: same api, b…

All Apple has to do to fix this is allow sideloading. They don't need to change the App Store's rules—they can make them more stringent, actually—and you can set up your child's phone to block non-App-Store installations. Heck, Epic would probably cave and accept the cost to keep Fortnite in the App Store; they tried to go around Google Play, and it seemingly didn't work out.
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