Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#81

Post by billti » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #51

hddherman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40% single thread increase, but most likely 100+% increase in core count. CPU manufacturers did not slap more cores on a CPU to get high benchmark scores, it's just one of the few viable options for increasing CPU performance.

Check top/task manager from time to time. It's pretty rare any desktop applications use more than 2 or 3 cores to the max. That means those extra cores won't really help day to day performance.

If you’re a dev (as I’m sure many here are), many big builds will max all cores for extended times. I had to up the cooling in my machine as building Chromium would regularly peg all 8 core for hours, causing thermal throttling to kick in and lower clock speeds.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#82

Post by xattt » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

fermienrico wrote: post #74

013a wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel's CPUs today are still king when it comes to single-thread workloads, like gaming. The main difference in the past two years has been that AMD has taken the lead in multi-thread performance, and that's scared Intel so much that they've significantly improved multi-thread performance and price across the board. The difference is quite stark, in both directions [1]: AMD destroys Intel in anything that benefits fr…

The whole situation boils down to price. AMD is a better value given the price. If Intel wants, they can just cut and match the prices. Why is there so much callous fanboyism around/against a goddamn CPU supplier like they’re a statement of their lifestyle or such? Its ok to do due diligence before purchasing but relentless obsession over my red team is better than your blue team screams of immaturity. Same with the…

It is a hobby in itself. It’s irritating to others because the true hobby is hidden under the guise of another hobby.

The irritation comes from a mismatch of expectations around the end goal between those who are fanboys and those who just want to get stuff done.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#83

Post by tyingq » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #42

tyingq wrote: post #21

Aside from the pressure from AMD, I think there's another force at play here. There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. For them, a 5 year old (or older?) CPU is good enough that they don't know they are missing anything. Especially if they have enough memory and an SSD.

> There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. As opposed to the people who used to use their computer for email and spread sheets? I would argue that the resource needs of a web browser has absolutely been increasing over time. The 4GB of RAM in that old laptop just does not work for the modern web. And considering how many web site now require the client to run tons an…

I don't believe I claimed that 4GB RAM was enough. Just that a 5 year old (and perhaps older) CPU was good enough.

I mentioned web browser usage as opposed to more demanding loads like gaming, content creation, software development, multiple office tools being used at the same time alongside the browser, etc.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#84

Post by lwkl » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 3:51 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #78

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in building a PC, you're choosing a motherboard socket, and thus potentially making it cheap to upgrade to later-gen CPUs that stay compatible with that socket. I'm curious how common it is for people to upgrade just the CPU or motherboard. I tend to upgrade / replace my personal PC's every 4-6 years. At that pace, it's always seemed worthwhile to upgrade both motherboard and CPU at the same time, because of platfor…

One oft-stated reasoning is that people who currently don't have much money (e.g. college students) can build a PC with a motherboard socket targeted by both low-end and high-end CPUs; and then select, for now, the (cheap) low-end CPU. Then, a few years later, when they're working and have more money, they can replace it with the high-end version. I'm not sure how common this actually is in practice, but it seems log…

Probably not too common. The only people I‘ve seen do this were enthusiasts that had high end gaming rigs and spent a lot of money on their computers. It probably would’ve been cheaper for them to replace everything every 3-4 years. But it‘s their hobby and who am I to judge?

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#85

Post by ponker » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

fermienrico wrote: post #74

013a wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel's CPUs today are still king when it comes to single-thread workloads, like gaming. The main difference in the past two years has been that AMD has taken the lead in multi-thread performance, and that's scared Intel so much that they've significantly improved multi-thread performance and price across the board. The difference is quite stark, in both directions [1]: AMD destroys Intel in anything that benefits fr…

The whole situation boils down to price. AMD is a better value given the price. If Intel wants, they can just cut and match the prices. Why is there so much callous fanboyism around/against a goddamn CPU supplier like they’re a statement of their lifestyle or such? Its ok to do due diligence before purchasing but relentless obsession over my red team is better than your blue team screams of immaturity. Same with the…

As a film camera guy, I can say that I am unashamedly more of a camera hobbyist than a photography hobbyist. I mostly take pictures to keep the mechanisms operational.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#86

Post by AgloeDreams » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 4:00 PM UTC

ben-schaaf wrote: post #71

AgloeDreams wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD has little stopping them from moving to 5nm or 6nm TSMC next year, possibly sooner than Intel can ship this. AMD could do a small run to win on both paper and ground. The real factor here is the third competitor, Apple, walking in with what is expected to be a 5nm 'no cost limits' CPU that they will ship on every machine based on A14 architecture. Because they own the design and just have TSMC do Fab it's likely…

I don't see that happening. Apple needs to make money and they do so by having huge margins. They can certainly increase the CPU budget by taking out the Intel cut (though really they've just swapped that for the TSMC cut), but they're not going to chuck a $1000+ CPU in a ~$1200 laptop. This may be my lack of knowledge in CPU manufacturing, but from what I understand larger dies get you more performance not more effi…

So by Mega-core-count I mean more than 10 and I'm including their big.little architecture (so maybe 6+ high performance, 8 efficiency, remember that Apple can use all cores grouped however, asymmetrical).

The chip design and margin advantages here are massive. Apple sell's phones at $399 with the A13 (7nm) that outperforms (by any metric we currently have), some of Intels > $300 notebook processors, building using iPhone cores as a base means your margins are subsidized by one of the largest selling products and most massive R&D budgets in the world. Then you have the efficiency of all of this: sure, larger Dies won't get better efficiency but Apple's chips use massively modular power operations. They can bring cores on and offline dynamically, you can chop the GPU, core by core, when you don't need it. They could (important: could) ship chips that use 4, smartphone power-level cores in normal operations but can flash on 64 core performance for a second and lose it just as fast. Thats how the iPhone's A13 works right now. Notebook (unsustained) performance in a smartphone with no fan. It's why the iPad Pro outperforms the 13 inch MacBook Pro at video rendering. It's the advantages of ARM chip design in 2020 and I imagine they will play to every last one of their strengths.

All the real money is in pre-built systems. AMD sells a ton of units but nothing like Qualcomm or even Intel with their notebook stronghold. I'm sure theres space, just that I believe the market will be decreased in size and if Apple is over there frying everyone, then it's gonna be hard to advertise your hard work beating Intel. I'm not saying all of this will happen or even will happen next year, it's just that the forces here are somewhat massive advantages.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#87

Post by kaibee » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 4:00 PM UTC

hobofan wrote: post #46

fortran77 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this all the time, in every area. Bicycle forums are filled with hate for "casual bikers" who buy $5,000 bicycles and all the expensive accessories. My feeling is "good for them! They help the industry and help finance the lower-end models." Some people are just too petty to see the "enthusiast" market also drives the low-end.

> They help the industry and help finance the lower-end models Do they though? From how most companies operate that I've seen from the inside, I would assume that such a market response would shift their focus towards high-end models, and low-end models will be neglected. Sure, there is somewhat of a technology trickle down towards lower-end models over time, but that seems to be driven on an industry/supplier/compet…

> The only way this would apply would be through shared overhead, which given that we are talking about different product lines often tends to be minimal.

My understanding is that in the CPU case, the lower product tiers are literally just higher tier chips that had faults in some cores/areas and had those features disabled.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#88

Post by Klinky » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 4:02 PM UTC

frankc wrote: post #70

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I know, including myself, have gone AMD 39xx. Damn what a beast at a reasonable price.

At this point though intel has slashed their price/core to be competitive if not better than threadripper. They don't have anything that compete in core count, but if you look at the 9980/10980 series with 18 cores, its very competitive on a price basis per core with the 24/32/64 core threadrippers. If you want max cores then you still need to go with threadripper but if 18 is enough, i don't get all the hate 10980 g…

Practically every review for the 3960X shows it's significantly faster at productivity applications than a 10980XE. Leaving six cores on the table is significant. If you have a primarily single-threaded task, then you should just go for a 10900K.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#89

Post by kev009 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 4:04 PM UTC

013a wrote: post #68

xyst wrote: post #2

I won't be buying Intel CPUs for years to come. Haven't upgraded since 2016. Years of "incremental" improvements while still advertising $1000+ CPU prices has deterred me for quite some time. Intel fanboys might eat it up though. Given their history of significant delays in the current roadmap, how does this compare to their competition who is quickly advancing on 10nm? Also what is this internal naming schema? > The…

Intel's CPUs today are still king when it comes to single-thread workloads, like gaming. The main difference in the past two years has been that AMD has taken the lead in multi-thread performance, and that's scared Intel so much that they've significantly improved multi-thread performance and price across the board. The difference is quite stark, in both directions [1]: AMD destroys Intel in anything that benefits fr…

By the time you subtract all the sub-prime performance from their vulnerabilities, this isn't actually true on properly patched operating systems. They took a sub-prime loan on validation, sacrificing security in the process, and the result is chips marketed and sold as something they are not. There really should be government-level lawsuit and restructuring at intel right now.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#90

Post by leetcrew » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 4:07 PM UTC

hobofan wrote: post #46

fortran77 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this all the time, in every area. Bicycle forums are filled with hate for "casual bikers" who buy $5,000 bicycles and all the expensive accessories. My feeling is "good for them! They help the industry and help finance the lower-end models." Some people are just too petty to see the "enthusiast" market also drives the low-end.

> They help the industry and help finance the lower-end models Do they though? From how most companies operate that I've seen from the inside, I would assume that such a market response would shift their focus towards high-end models, and low-end models will be neglected. Sure, there is somewhat of a technology trickle down towards lower-end models over time, but that seems to be driven on an industry/supplier/compet…

> The only way this would apply would be through shared overhead, which given that we are talking about different product lines often tends to be minimal.

this is very much not minimal in the CPU business though. intel's entire line of (consumer) desktop parts is different bins of the same chip. they wouldn't be able to offer an i3 for $120 if they weren't also selling i9s for $500. and they probably couldn't sell consumer parts for <$1000 at all if they couldn't sell xeon parts with the same architecture for thousands of dollars.