Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NSA Owns Everything (2015)

blog.thinkst.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 265 posts

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#171

Post by yc3po »

BickNowstrom wrote: post #170
jacquesm wrote: post #104

The difference between a theory, a conspiracy theory and the truth are best described by varying levels of evidence. A theory is not currently accepted as the truth, but it might be the truth. A conspiracy theory is something that has been proven to be untrue, but people still believe it and pass it on. The truth is the internally consistent and fact supported state of the world as it was and as it is. There were man…

Snowden was even willing to burn his future career, as he took a job with Booz Allen Hamilton with the sole purpose of leaking as much information as he could get his hands on. As an admin at BAH he was using his colleagues' passwords for discovery. He was willing to burn their careers to hack access to more leaks. So much leaks that he could not vet these all. This was no Ellsberg tasked with copying some confidenti…

And he's a true American hero for it.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#172

Post by JoelMcCracken »

jacquesm wrote: post #168
JoelMcCracken wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two forms popularly used. One is to refer to what might be thought of paranoid, irrational beliefs. Another is that there is a theory about a conspiracy. The issue is that by not acknowledging that there are two separate uses, people end up lumping any theory about a conspiracy into "conspiracy theory". For example, I remember reading a comment on HN around 2010 from someone who worked at an interne…

Spot on. So, the one was a theory, the world being ruled by Lizard people is a conspiracy theory. This list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories Does not include anything even remotely like 'The NSA is listening in on all of us'. At present it is not even a theory, it is established fact but at no point in the past would I have put that on the same level of the items on that list. The paranoid i…

Do you think, for example, that the death of Jeremy Epstein was not really a suicide is as unlikely as any others? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories#Je...

Or, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories#MK... which we actually know as having been real (though not necessarily all of the related theories are true, as I don't know what they are. But I am pretty sure that if you said "the goverment is kidnapping Americans and doing chemical mind control experiments on them" before all the facts abotu MKUltra came out, people would have labeled you a conspiracy theory nut.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#173

Post by meroes »

raxxorrax wrote: post #70
azinman2 wrote: post #12

Yet somehow Russian / China are hacking the US left and right. If the NSA is so good, then at some point dont they have the responsibility to actively defend?

I am still amazed how many people believed the Russian election manipulation story without any evidence. Especially large portions of the press should stand ashamed in a really, really dark corner. In hindsight I believe the people selling penis enlargement were correct about the reasoning abilities of humanity...

Didn't the Senate, House Committees, nearly every US intelligence agency, and independent researchers all say Russia actively interfered and wanted Trump to win?

Where are you still finding the one source espousing this nonsense?

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#174

Post by maerF0x0 »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #149
maerF0x0 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> willing to burn their career to provide the proof. This should have been the case as in normal whistleblower cases. Seems it was not. I also suspect that Russia will eventually try and call the favor to coerce him to do something for them EDIT: had no idea this would be so negatively viewed. If you're going to down vote please indicate what you're against...

What possible use could Snowden provide Russia?

I'm not certain at this point. His skills? His voice/platform? for example if he were to come forth and say something plausible but false many would just believe him.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#175

Post by maerF0x0 »

ctack wrote: post #135
maerF0x0 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> willing to burn their career to provide the proof. This should have been the case as in normal whistleblower cases. Seems it was not. I also suspect that Russia will eventually try and call the favor to coerce him to do something for them EDIT: had no idea this would be so negatively viewed. If you're going to down vote please indicate what you're against...

Him being there makes Russia look more tolerant than his home country.. Which is already a Pretty big bonus.

His continued reliance on Russia gives them more than enough power to force his hand into something he may not otherwise do.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#176

Post by ynniv »

jacquesm wrote: post #161
ynniv wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the term is a combination of name calling and appeal to authority used to quickly discredit a theory, and has been applied to significant minority theories that have turned out to be true. It’s more work but better form to avoid the term and confront fringe theories with solid argumentation.

"fringe theories" are bullet proof against solid argumentation. The counter argument is: you are a paid shill of - insert boogeyman shorthand here. If fringe theories would be susceptible to reason then the bulk of them wouldn't exist and the remainder would not be classified as a belief system but just another theory waiting for confirmation or rebuttal.

This sounds like frustration at the inability to change the beliefs of people. People will often behave irrationally, and yes there is nothing we can do about that. They have done this forever, and likely will continue to do that forever. You can only have a rational argument with them if they care to find the truth, and most people most of the time do not. On the other hand, many people come to Hacker News explicitly to participate in rational discussion, and seeing this kind of low value dismissal is disappointing. I would have ignored it out of hand if it didn’t have your name on it.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#177

Post by feralimal »

feralimal wrote: post #143
jermier wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things like bits of his glasses disappearing indicate that he could be CGI So you're essentially saying the revelations were a false flag operation? I considered that possibility, but Snowden's background is well researched and the first thing media outlets look at before publishing their findings. The Guardian probably thoroughly doxed him before publishing anything. And in interviews he comes across as sincere an…

I'm saying that media outlets are an arm of the governance structure that are there to corroborate and promote the story. The only one that researches anything you can trust is you - and that doesn't mean reading the Guardian.

PS - here's a link I posted in another comment about the disappearing glasses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QqxLalvh-4

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#178

Post by president »

nix23 wrote: post #60
azinman2 wrote: post #12

Yet somehow Russian / China are hacking the US left and right. If the NSA is so good, then at some point dont they have the responsibility to actively defend?

>China are hacking the US left and right Can you proof that or is that maybe something the CIA or the Pentagon would say?

For one, they have been hacking biomedical companies to steal COVID-19 research and a few were caught red-handed [1]. Also, see Equifax indictments.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53493028

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#179

Post by jacquesm »

ynniv wrote: post #176
jacquesm wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"fringe theories" are bullet proof against solid argumentation. The counter argument is: you are a paid shill of - insert boogeyman shorthand here. If fringe theories would be susceptible to reason then the bulk of them wouldn't exist and the remainder would not be classified as a belief system but just another theory waiting for confirmation or rebuttal.

This sounds like frustration at the inability to change the beliefs of people. People will often behave irrationally, and yes there is nothing we can do about that. They have done this forever, and likely will continue to do that forever. You can only have a rational argument with them if they care to find the truth, and most people most of the time do not. On the other hand, many people come to Hacker News explicitl…

> seeing this kind of low value dismissal is disappointing

> I would have ignored it out of hand

Those two next to each other is kind of amusing.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#180

Post by TheMblabla »

BickNowstrom wrote: post #170
jacquesm wrote: post #104

The difference between a theory, a conspiracy theory and the truth are best described by varying levels of evidence. A theory is not currently accepted as the truth, but it might be the truth. A conspiracy theory is something that has been proven to be untrue, but people still believe it and pass it on. The truth is the internally consistent and fact supported state of the world as it was and as it is. There were man…

Snowden was even willing to burn his future career, as he took a job with Booz Allen Hamilton with the sole purpose of leaking as much information as he could get his hands on. As an admin at BAH he was using his colleagues' passwords for discovery. He was willing to burn their careers to hack access to more leaks. So much leaks that he could not vet these all. This was no Ellsberg tasked with copying some confidenti…

>Then instead of facing justice (and there are whistleblower protections for doing the right thing)

I think it was pretty well understood at the time that the Obama administration could not be dependant on upholding whistle blower protections.

Post reply on HN