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Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

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Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#71

Post by ben-schaaf »

AgloeDreams wrote: post #31
bryanlarsen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take the other side of that bet. According to the article and other related ones, both the Xe graphics architecture and the 10++ nodes are substantial bumps. But it'll be a close race, which is a piece of awesomeness we've never had in laptops before. The Ryzen 4000 is a 2019 vintage. Slightly losing against Intel's 2021 design is no shame. Comparing Tiger Lake against the Ryzen 5000 is a fairer comparison. And t…

AMD has little stopping them from moving to 5nm or 6nm TSMC next year, possibly sooner than Intel can ship this. AMD could do a small run to win on both paper and ground. The real factor here is the third competitor, Apple, walking in with what is expected to be a 5nm 'no cost limits' CPU that they will ship on every machine based on A14 architecture. Because they own the design and just have TSMC do Fab it's likely…

I don't see that happening. Apple needs to make money and they do so by having huge margins. They can certainly increase the CPU budget by taking out the Intel cut (though really they've just swapped that for the TSMC cut), but they're not going to chuck a $1000+ CPU in a ~$1200 laptop.

This may be my lack of knowledge in CPU manufacturing, but from what I understand larger dies get you more performance not more efficiency, so considering their inability to build adequate cooling solutions and fondness for reducing thickness even if they chucked a 32core bohemeth in there it won't be running very fast.

On top of that, since AMD are using the same nodes I don't really see how they wouldn't be able to compete. Especially considering Apple probably won't be selling their CPUs separately, leaving out large parts of the market.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#72

Post by yread »

londons_explore wrote: post #51
hddherman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40% single thread increase, but most likely 100+% increase in core count. CPU manufacturers did not slap more cores on a CPU to get high benchmark scores, it's just one of the few viable options for increasing CPU performance.

Check top/task manager from time to time. It's pretty rare any desktop applications use more than 2 or 3 cores to the max. That means those extra cores won't really help day to day performance.

single desktop app probably doesn't but you don't run just a single one. Chrome, IDE, database server, db client, web server, VMs, slack/teams/gitter, email client. Try provisioning a VM with single core and running them all at once inside...

EDIT: that said I wonder if you notice a difference between 4 and 8 cores in normal life

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#73

Post by ubercow13 »

fortran77 wrote: post #30
apotecaryman wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood this idea that someone feels sleighted for something out of their price range that they perceive should be valued lower for their benefit while complaining that the company is setting up prices for their benefit too. Is it grounded on facts or mostly an emotional response?

I see this all the time, in every area. Bicycle forums are filled with hate for "casual bikers" who buy $5,000 bicycles and all the expensive accessories. My feeling is "good for them! They help the industry and help finance the lower-end models." Some people are just too petty to see the "enthusiast" market also drives the low-end.

This doesn't seem to apply to the CPU industry, where Intel has been charging these high prices for the enthusiast products and then not driving innovation in the midrange, due to having a monopoly position partly brought about by previous anticompetitive behaviour on their part. Is that similar to the bicycle industry?

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#74

Post by fermienrico »

013a wrote: post #68
xyst wrote: post #2

I won't be buying Intel CPUs for years to come. Haven't upgraded since 2016. Years of "incremental" improvements while still advertising $1000+ CPU prices has deterred me for quite some time. Intel fanboys might eat it up though. Given their history of significant delays in the current roadmap, how does this compare to their competition who is quickly advancing on 10nm? Also what is this internal naming schema? > The…

Intel's CPUs today are still king when it comes to single-thread workloads, like gaming. The main difference in the past two years has been that AMD has taken the lead in multi-thread performance, and that's scared Intel so much that they've significantly improved multi-thread performance and price across the board. The difference is quite stark, in both directions [1]: AMD destroys Intel in anything that benefits fr…

The whole situation boils down to price.

AMD is a better value given the price. If Intel wants, they can just cut and match the prices.

Why is there so much callous fanboyism around/against a goddamn CPU supplier like they’re a statement of their lifestyle or such?

Its ok to do due diligence before purchasing but relentless obsession over my red team is better than your blue team screams of immaturity.

Same with the people that endlessly pixel peep and read MTF charts for days in photography. They spend more time talking about how great their camera and lens setup is than actually going out and taking pictures with it.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#75

Post by imperialdrive »

stagger87 wrote: post #54
dahfizz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. As opposed to the people who used to use their computer for email and spread sheets? I would argue that the resource needs of a web browser has absolutely been increasing over time. The 4GB of RAM in that old laptop just does not work for the modern web. And considering how many web site now require the client to run tons an…

4GB of RAM on a machine (regardless of OS) is absolutely fine for browsing the "modern web".

That is the opposite of what I see on a daily basis managing several 100+ SMB Windows based computer networks. I'm curious what your summary is to back up 4GB being absolutely fine.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#76

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

derefr wrote: post #69
Wandfarbe wrote: post #59

When i read comments here i'm wondering how and why people are either for or against intel? IF i need to upgrade, i will check the current situation and will buy the best cpu in comparison to my needs and price. If it means that i need tons of core because of my workload i might choose a threadripper. Do i need to compile often and i know a specific intel cpu will save me ton of time waiting but it costs more? Fine.…

When you're a business, you can't make turn-on-a-dime decisions like that. You commit to business-equipment purchase/leasing/upgrade agreements with a particular OEM; who in turn usually commits (for economy-of-scale reasons) to one CPU supplier or the other. So, if you're stuck with an OEM who's in turn stuck with "the wrong" CPU supplier (right now Intel), that can make you cross, at the potential performance that'…

>in building a PC, you're choosing a motherboard socket, and thus potentially making it cheap to upgrade to later-gen CPUs that stay compatible with that socket.

I'm curious how common it is for people to upgrade just the CPU or motherboard.

I tend to upgrade / replace my personal PC's every 4-6 years. At that pace, it's always seemed worthwhile to upgrade both motherboard and CPU at the same time, because of platform improvements. But maybe I'm an outlier.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#77

Post by MangoCoffee »

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/China-tech/China-hires-over...

"As a company, TSMC competes to our fullest within the law, but we do not slander our competitors and we respect the intellectual property rights of others. Similarly, we expect our suppliers and other companies to respect TSMC's intellectual property rights and will take appropriate protective actions."

I remember a Taiwanese news said TSMC ask their suppliers not to sell TSMC's custom machines to others.

a while back on Hacker news someone said TSMC have no choice but to build a fab in the U.S. because TSMC needs suppliers like Applied Materials but it doesn't seem that way because everyone can have the same suppliers but Intel and Samsung is struggling while TSMC charge ahead.

https://wccftech.com/samsung-lost-5nm-snapdragon-x60-snapdra....

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#78

Post by derefr »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #76
derefr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're a business, you can't make turn-on-a-dime decisions like that. You commit to business-equipment purchase/leasing/upgrade agreements with a particular OEM; who in turn usually commits (for economy-of-scale reasons) to one CPU supplier or the other. So, if you're stuck with an OEM who's in turn stuck with "the wrong" CPU supplier (right now Intel), that can make you cross, at the potential performance that'…

>in building a PC, you're choosing a motherboard socket, and thus potentially making it cheap to upgrade to later-gen CPUs that stay compatible with that socket. I'm curious how common it is for people to upgrade just the CPU or motherboard. I tend to upgrade / replace my personal PC's every 4-6 years. At that pace, it's always seemed worthwhile to upgrade both motherboard and CPU at the same time, because of platfor…

One oft-stated reasoning is that people who currently don't have much money (e.g. college students) can build a PC with a motherboard socket targeted by both low-end and high-end CPUs; and then select, for now, the (cheap) low-end CPU. Then, a few years later, when they're working and have more money, they can replace it with the high-end version.

I'm not sure how common this actually is in practice, but it seems logical.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#79

Post by richthegeek »

paulie_a wrote: post #61
xyst wrote: post #2

I won't be buying Intel CPUs for years to come. Haven't upgraded since 2016. Years of "incremental" improvements while still advertising $1000+ CPU prices has deterred me for quite some time. Intel fanboys might eat it up though. Given their history of significant delays in the current roadmap, how does this compare to their competition who is quickly advancing on 10nm? Also what is this internal naming schema? > The…

Meanwhile amd has been cleaning their clock for decades at a better price point. Literally there were people born that can legally drink now. Intel is the grey goose of chips. Amd gets the job done

My first CPU at age ~8 was a Pentium Pro, followed by a Pentium II. That was the last Intel CPU I ever owned. I stuck on an FX8350 for a while, and it was never the bottleneck for gaming performane compared to the GPU.

For a non-enthusiast, AMD has been a great choice almost for my whole life.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#80

Post by pythonaut_16 »

dahfizz wrote: post #42
tyingq wrote: post #21

Aside from the pressure from AMD, I think there's another force at play here. There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. For them, a 5 year old (or older?) CPU is good enough that they don't know they are missing anything. Especially if they have enough memory and an SSD.

> There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. As opposed to the people who used to use their computer for email and spread sheets? I would argue that the resource needs of a web browser has absolutely been increasing over time. The 4GB of RAM in that old laptop just does not work for the modern web. And considering how many web site now require the client to run tons an…

Spreadsheets and some other business software can get really gnarly though (especially on RAM usage). Outlook itself can be quite heavy.

But I also agree, browsers and web apps aren't exactly lightweight either. Maybe WASM adoption can help on this front?

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