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Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

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Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#41

Post by ip26 »

tyingq wrote: post #21

Aside from the pressure from AMD, I think there's another force at play here. There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. For them, a 5 year old (or older?) CPU is good enough that they don't know they are missing anything. Especially if they have enough memory and an SSD.

I think you can argue that may be caused by performance stagnation. When the CPU market is not advancing in performance, software is not going to advance in computational requirements.

You can see a counter-example in mobile phones. Their processors are continuing to make considerable strides in power-constrained performance, and 2-3 year old phones regularly wind up getting perceptually slower as the software advances in performance requirements.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#42

Post by dahfizz »

tyingq wrote: post #21

Aside from the pressure from AMD, I think there's another force at play here. There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. For them, a 5 year old (or older?) CPU is good enough that they don't know they are missing anything. Especially if they have enough memory and an SSD.

> There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop.

As opposed to the people who used to use their computer for email and spread sheets?

I would argue that the resource needs of a web browser has absolutely been increasing over time. The 4GB of RAM in that old laptop just does not work for the modern web. And considering how many web site now require the client to run tons and tons of JS just to work, I can see a need to refresh your CPU regularly.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#43

Post by leetcrew »

Causality1 wrote: post #24
ResidentSleeper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being in the market for an enthusiast CPU is predicated on being enthusiastic about CPUs in the first place, and that's become somewhat difficult in the last couple of years.

Indeed. My old self-imposed rule was that upgrading was a waste of money unless I could get at least twice the performance. Manufacturers have generated high benchmarks by throwing "moar cores" at it but even the best chips have barely a 40% single-thread increase over my seven year old Haswell build.

are all your workloads single/lightly threaded? my 9700k compiles c++ two to three times faster than my old 4770k.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#44

Post by mtgx »

AgloeDreams wrote: post #31
bryanlarsen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take the other side of that bet. According to the article and other related ones, both the Xe graphics architecture and the 10++ nodes are substantial bumps. But it'll be a close race, which is a piece of awesomeness we've never had in laptops before. The Ryzen 4000 is a 2019 vintage. Slightly losing against Intel's 2021 design is no shame. Comparing Tiger Lake against the Ryzen 5000 is a fairer comparison. And t…

AMD has little stopping them from moving to 5nm or 6nm TSMC next year, possibly sooner than Intel can ship this. AMD could do a small run to win on both paper and ground. The real factor here is the third competitor, Apple, walking in with what is expected to be a 5nm 'no cost limits' CPU that they will ship on every machine based on A14 architecture. Because they own the design and just have TSMC do Fab it's likely…

Yeah, I can't help but think announcing its chips' performance 1-1.5 years in advance will allow the competition to demolish them at that time, because they'll know exactly what they need to do to beat Intel by a large margin. And that doesn't take into account Intel's own delays.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#45

Post by hddherman »

Causality1 wrote: post #24
ResidentSleeper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being in the market for an enthusiast CPU is predicated on being enthusiastic about CPUs in the first place, and that's become somewhat difficult in the last couple of years.

Indeed. My old self-imposed rule was that upgrading was a waste of money unless I could get at least twice the performance. Manufacturers have generated high benchmarks by throwing "moar cores" at it but even the best chips have barely a 40% single-thread increase over my seven year old Haswell build.

40% single thread increase, but most likely 100+% increase in core count. CPU manufacturers did not slap more cores on a CPU to get high benchmark scores, it's just one of the few viable options for increasing CPU performance.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#46

Post by hobofan »

fortran77 wrote: post #30
apotecaryman wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood this idea that someone feels sleighted for something out of their price range that they perceive should be valued lower for their benefit while complaining that the company is setting up prices for their benefit too. Is it grounded on facts or mostly an emotional response?

I see this all the time, in every area. Bicycle forums are filled with hate for "casual bikers" who buy $5,000 bicycles and all the expensive accessories. My feeling is "good for them! They help the industry and help finance the lower-end models." Some people are just too petty to see the "enthusiast" market also drives the low-end.

> They help the industry and help finance the lower-end models

Do they though? From how most companies operate that I've seen from the inside, I would assume that such a market response would shift their focus towards high-end models, and low-end models will be neglected.

Sure, there is somewhat of a technology trickle down towards lower-end models over time, but that seems to be driven on an industry/supplier/competition level and mostly disconnected from luxury consumers. Especially "_financing_ the lower-end models" seems unlikely, as no manufacturer would lower the prices on the lower-end models, just because they make "enough" on the high-end ones. The only way this would apply would be through shared overhead, which given that we are talking about different product lines often tends to be minimal.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#47

Post by a012 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #23
rwmj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be competing against the AMD Ryzen 4000, and most likely losing that competition.

I'd take the other side of that bet. According to the article and other related ones, both the Xe graphics architecture and the 10++ nodes are substantial bumps. But it'll be a close race, which is a piece of awesomeness we've never had in laptops before. The Ryzen 4000 is a 2019 vintage. Slightly losing against Intel's 2021 design is no shame. Comparing Tiger Lake against the Ryzen 5000 is a fairer comparison. And t…

I ask because Intel's cache comparison is vs. Zen2. So my assumption is they (Intel) target AMD 4000 with slightly more elements/accelerators to get a better look than Zen2. I'd expect AMD 5000 to be released at the same time as this *lake CPU.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#48

Post by bostonpete »

apotecaryman wrote: post #9
xyst wrote: post #2

I won't be buying Intel CPUs for years to come. Haven't upgraded since 2016. Years of "incremental" improvements while still advertising $1000+ CPU prices has deterred me for quite some time. Intel fanboys might eat it up though. Given their history of significant delays in the current roadmap, how does this compare to their competition who is quickly advancing on 10nm? Also what is this internal naming schema? > The…

I never understood this idea that someone feels sleighted for something out of their price range that they perceive should be valued lower for their benefit while complaining that the company is setting up prices for their benefit too. Is it grounded on facts or mostly an emotional response?

I read the comment to mean that Intel isn't worth the higher price compared to AMD these days. How does someone saying they won't buy Intel CPUs translate to a complaint that the company is setting up prices for their benefit?

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#49

Post by bryanlarsen »

AgloeDreams wrote: post #31
bryanlarsen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take the other side of that bet. According to the article and other related ones, both the Xe graphics architecture and the 10++ nodes are substantial bumps. But it'll be a close race, which is a piece of awesomeness we've never had in laptops before. The Ryzen 4000 is a 2019 vintage. Slightly losing against Intel's 2021 design is no shame. Comparing Tiger Lake against the Ryzen 5000 is a fairer comparison. And t…

AMD has little stopping them from moving to 5nm or 6nm TSMC next year, possibly sooner than Intel can ship this. AMD could do a small run to win on both paper and ground. The real factor here is the third competitor, Apple, walking in with what is expected to be a 5nm 'no cost limits' CPU that they will ship on every machine based on A14 architecture. Because they own the design and just have TSMC do Fab it's likely…

Zen 3 will likely ship before Tiger Lake at least on EPYC, but it's TSMC N7+, Zen 4 is 5nm Samsung and/or TSMC but 2022.

I do agree that Apple will likely take a hit to their margin if that's necessary to ensure that their new ARM laptops are clearly more performant per $ than their outgoing x86 ones. Whether that will be a significant spoiler is an interesting question.

Re: Intel’s 11th Gen Core Tiger Lake SoC Detailed

#50

Post by _jal »

apotecaryman wrote: post #9
xyst wrote: post #2

I won't be buying Intel CPUs for years to come. Haven't upgraded since 2016. Years of "incremental" improvements while still advertising $1000+ CPU prices has deterred me for quite some time. Intel fanboys might eat it up though. Given their history of significant delays in the current roadmap, how does this compare to their competition who is quickly advancing on 10nm? Also what is this internal naming schema? > The…

I never understood this idea that someone feels sleighted for something out of their price range that they perceive should be valued lower for their benefit while complaining that the company is setting up prices for their benefit too. Is it grounded on facts or mostly an emotional response?

There is a lot of frustration with Intel over their pricing structure. Intel has done an excellent job at maximizing cash extraction.

Whatever the logic, humans do not like the feeling of being taken advantage of, and when your counterparty is obviously maximizing how much they extract from you, it feels bad.

The funny part is lots of people like to make themselves feel better by condescendingly "educating" people who feel that way. It is poor emotional regulation all the way down.

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