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Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

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Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no you are so persecuted. I am so sorry for you that you can’t post racism and gore on Facebook.

First : except a YouTube account that I use to manage my videos playlists I don't use social medias at all. I still see what's going there and I find it appalling. Second : you don't know me. So don't assume who I am and why I lament the loss of freedom on the web. Lastly there are plenty of reasonable topics that are censored : you can't even emit any doubt about the COVID "religion" for crying out loud.

Thanks for confirming exactly who I thought you were.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#152
post #98
post #90

https://disaster.radio/ disaster.radio is an off-grid, solar-powered, long-range mesh network built on free, open source software and affordable, open hardware. Designed to be open, distributed, and decentralized, disaster.radio is currently in the prototype/development phase.

this is only for short messages via Lora, 40 chars at a time last time I tried.

What counts as a character? 1 ASCII or 1 Unicode? If Unicode then just use Chinese and you can express a lot in the span of 40 characters.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#153
post #29

This is an important area in which I feel development has been disappointing, mainly because the commercial value isn't there. There are a few off-grid mesh dongle products that have been released in the past few years. Unfortunately, they're all crazy expensive. Examples: https://gotenna.com/ https://beartooth.com/ https://www.gotoky.com/ https://fogo.io/ They all rely on your phone and themselves cost more than a w…

Because we have no access or control over the actual phoone part of the phone - the 4G/ cellular transmitter.

But you do have control over the wifi and bluetooth radios, which should be fine in an urban setting or a protest.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#154
The LibreRouter.org is an open source software and hardware wireless router for geek-free mesh community networks, that can be used by the whole population to deploy any size of telecom infrastructure for their own use, and that can't be interrupted by anyone in particular.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#155

This duscussion is cute, but but situation in belarus is deteriorating and people are being beaten and tortured in jail. Open this with google translate yo get an idea: https://news.tut.by/society/696375.html I would say that if you want to help, first reach out to your representative / government and put pressure on them to put pressure on belarus. It's a small country that depends on trade with the free world. Seco…

It's funny because I thought your reply was cute.

>I would say that if you want to help, first reach out to your representative / government and put pressure on them to put pressure on belarus.

Bahahaha. The US already has its hands full, there's no way on earth this gains traction when there's actual strategic priorities at the moment for them. Let the EU do something useful for once, they love talking about how much they help the world.

>Secondly, we need a crowdfunder to support people who've suffered grevious bodily harm at the hands of this regime.

Again, bahahaha. This is going to end up like when everyone and their brother was a "Syrian Refugee" because they knew it'd get them into Europe. You may as well send some of the money to the prince of Nigeria while you're at it.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#157
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. > What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off. Who has the ability _and…

> Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off. I'd say a blackout may well pull more people to the street, and open more opportunities for spontaneous openings. The same was in USSR in 1991. People are actually being attracted by the sound of gunfire, fire, and smoke, if all other decision making inputs are cut off. So…

From the "Kyrgyz Revolution" wikipedia page. "the Eurasian Daily Monitor reported on 1 April that, for two weeks, the Kremlin had used the Russian mass media to run a negative campaign against Bakiyev.[20] Russia controls much of the media in Kyrgyzstan.[20] The campaign sought to associate Bakiyev and his son, Maxim Bakiyev, with an allegedly corrupt businessman whose company had worked in a government project. "

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#158
post #29

This is an important area in which I feel development has been disappointing, mainly because the commercial value isn't there. There are a few off-grid mesh dongle products that have been released in the past few years. Unfortunately, they're all crazy expensive. Examples: https://gotenna.com/ https://beartooth.com/ https://www.gotoky.com/ https://fogo.io/ They all rely on your phone and themselves cost more than a w…

the https://gotenna.com/ map shows two devices in Minsk.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off. I'd say a blackout may well pull more people to the street, and open more opportunities for spontaneous openings. The same was in USSR in 1991. People are actually being attracted by the sound of gunfire, fire, and smoke, if all other decision making inputs are cut off. So…

From the "Kyrgyz Revolution" wikipedia page. "the Eurasian Daily Monitor reported on 1 April that, for two weeks, the Kremlin had used the Russian mass media to run a negative campaign against Bakiyev.[20] Russia controls much of the media in Kyrgyzstan.[20] The campaign sought to associate Bakiyev and his son, Maxim Bakiyev, with an allegedly corrupt businessman whose company had worked in a government project. "

Yes, not to say that Russia was a beneficiary of all of that was more than an understatement. The end result of that was the closure of USA base there, at a laughable cost for the Kremlin.

It does not still negate the fact that Bakiyev totally deserved that outcome, as an amoral, corrupt, and incompetent president, regardless of whom capitalised on the outcome of his ousting.

USA has a terrible talent betting on political leaders who are almost certain to lose power.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#160
post #144
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Urza. There's a page and a corresponding video for each type of stakeholder: end users, service providers and couriers (who step in to restore connectivity with a secure sneakernet). Those are quite high-level on purpose. If you're interested in the cryptographic and networking details, the specs is probably what you want. At least the introduction to the core spec: https://specs.relaynet.network/RS-000

Hi, unfortunately I am not much wiser from the specs. It describes higher level network/app protocols, no mention on the underlying mechanism of communication. Can you give me example of the hardware on which it is supposed to run and how it would work in Belarus?

Hi Urza,

(Apologies for the late reply. I'm new around here and I didn't remember that HN won't send me an email notifications for replies to my comments.)

Before getting into Relaynet, let's consider how Internet apps work: They have a client and a server, and the client is responsible for producing and delivering its own data. That means that the server must be reachable and ready to respond to each request, at the exact time each takes place. This architecture (called Remote Procedure Call, RPC) is fine when the Internet is available, but it breaks when the Internet is cut off and it's also incompatible with alternative transports because they add a significant latency.

By contrast, Relaynet apps use a radically different architecture: Asynchronous messaging. Instead of clients/servers, apps have "endpoints"; and instead of requests/responses, endpoints exchange "messages". Endpoints delegate the delivery of such messages to one or more brokers, which we call "gateways" in Relaynet. This way, the sender and receiver don't have to be reachable and ready at the same time, because the gateways will keep a copy of each message until it reaches its final destination. Consequently, when the Internet is available, gateways will use it and messages would be delivered instantly, but when the Internet is cut off, gateways will switch to a secure sneakernet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet). Additionally, endpoint messages (called "parcels" in Relaynet) are end-to-end encrypted and signed, so gateways can't tamper with them or see what's inside.

Behind the scenes, Relaynet apps communicate over the Internet/sneakernets via two gateways: A private gateway (a standalone app on the user's device) and a public gateway (a server-side app). Say Twitter supports Relaynet and exposes an endpoint at https://api.twitter.com/relaynet: When you post a tweet, your Twitter app will encapsulate it in a parcel bound for https://api.twitter.com/relaynet, but instead of delivering the parcel by itself, it'd send it to its local private gateway, which will in turn send it to its public gateway, and which will finally deliver it to Twitter's endpoint. Now consider the case where the Twitter server wants to send you data: It'd post the data to your public gateway (e.g., https://eu.relaycorp.tech), which would in turn send to your private gateway, which will finally send it to the endpoint in your local Twitter app; in this direction, the parcel is bound for an opaque address derived from the public key of the endpoint (analogous to Bitcoin addresses).

Now, when the Internet is cut off, your two gateways get disconnected. That's when couriers (https://relaynet.network/couriers) would step in and provide a secure sneakernet. Couriers will physically transport parcels between a place disconnected from the Internet and one connected to it. However, since parcels contain the address of the recipient, and that address would identify the service when it's bound for an Internet host (e.g., https://api.twitter.com/relaynet), gateways will encapsulate those parcels in a new layer of end-to-end encryption -- You can think of it as an "offline TLS". So couriers (or anyone who intercepts them) won't be able to see or change the parcels being transported.

As you may have anticipated by now, for a preexisting, Internet-based service to work on Relaynet, its developer has to make client- and server-side changes to their software. Alternatively, if the service offers an API, a third party could build a Relaynet integration (that's what I did in the Relaynet proof of concept with Twitter: https://twitter.com/relaynet_/status/1089211336171679745). Also, if you're building a service from scratch, you could build a fully decentralised one that doesn't need any servers (see: https://relaynet.network/service-providers)

Relaynet won't need any new/special hardware: Private gateways will support Android 5+/Windows/Linux (macOS and iOS support is on the roadmap), so you can use Relaynet as long as your device runs on one of those platforms.

I highly recommend watching this 12-minute video to learn more about how couriers establish this connectivity and also to see a demo of the software couriers will use: https://youtu.be/UXuLz3q_6bo.

How could this have worked in Belarus? Let's first assume that the implementation of Relaynet is complete and at least one service (e.g., Twitter) is now compatible with it. Based on what I know about the situation (https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disruption-hits-belar...), this could've been done:

- First of all, people should've ideally installed Relaynet and the Relaynet-compatible app(s) they wish to use before the election (whilst the Internet is available). Generally, people living under repressive regimes should aim to have Relaynet installed before contentious events like elections. Starting to use Relaynet without the Internet is possible but fiddly (https://github.com/relaycorp/relayverse/issues/1).

- Similarly, couriers should've (ideally) planned their routes in advance, especially if they'll be collaborating with other couriers or if they plan to use Latvian/Lithuanian/Polish mobile Internet operators near their borders (without actually crossing the border necessarily). Russian and Ukrainian operators could potentially work too. Couriers would've also identified places likely to remain connected to the Internet in the big cities (Minsk and Barysaw seem to have been remained connected to some extend, although a lot of that would've been government agencies: https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1293522490355064839).

- When the Internet was cut off, couriers would've stepped in by doing their route: Stopping at one or more locations without access to the Internet, and eventually getting to the nearest place with access to the Internet (somewhere in Minsk/Barysaw or near the border with another country).

- Each courier is free to charge their users if they want to (which would be reasonable, considering the risk and work they have to do), but we're not supporting that in any way in the software. That would be entirely between the courier and the user.

PS: All of this complexity is abstracted away from the end user. As far as they're concerned, all they need to do is install the private gateway and it'll default to a public gateway behind the scenes. Also, we won't be using this terminology with end users: The private gateway will simply be called the "Relaynet app".

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