India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire • Hacker News Board

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#111

Post by tesseract » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 1:07 AM UTC

rorrr wrote: post #59

magic_haze wrote: post #30

As an Indian student who tried to get through the "system", I can relate to this. I was really into computers and programming in high school, so I decided to go into the engineering stream in the "+2" years (basically, 11th and 12th grades, as opposed to the biology stream, which supposedly preps you for medical school). I remember the parental and peer pressure particularly well: my dad was pretty much opposed to it…

My impression (and I might be very wrong) is that both Indian and Chinese education is concentrated on memorization rather than understanding. That's why so few people from both countries can solve problems (at least in my work experience). I've interviewed a lot of people in the last 2 years, and I never look at the education level. I only care about your ability to solve problems. We've had people with masters in C…

I'm reminded of Feynman's critique of Brazilian physics education.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#112

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 1:49 AM UTC

phr wrote: post #53

petervandijck wrote: post #8

"For their next challenge, they had to type 25 words a minute" That's pretty slow, right?

Steve Yegge says every programmer should be a fast, accurate, touch-typist: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirtiest-little-secret.html I couldn't find his minimum-speed prescription, just now, but he does say 70 words a minute is easily obtainable for anyone with two hands.

[deleted]

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#113

Post by shadowfox » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 1:51 AM UTC

jff wrote: post #102

jarek wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I disagree with this post a lot. Unless you're typing out Java factories by hand with no IDE support, any speed approaching touch-typing is going to do you fine. 70 words per minute is not necessary.

That's what you think, until you're working with someone and you watch him/her typing out Unix commands at 20 wpm, making constant mistakes.

People who watch horror movies and then complain about being scared have themselves to blame :P

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#114

Post by ajays » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 2:27 AM UTC

I think the main difference between India and, say, the West (US/UK) is that in India, students pick a profession based on the earning potential, or what their parents what them to do. Very few people pick it based on what they want to do.

So you have people getting CS degrees, but their hearts are not in CS. So there's no passion, no excitement, no enthusiasm.

Meanwhile, colleges also don't light a fire inside their students. It's all rote learning. One of the few colleges that really teaches people how to think independently is BITS Pilani http://www.bits-pilani.ac.in/ (I may be biased a little ;) ). Even though I got a Mechanical Engg degree from there, I learnt enough CS that I was able to get a full assistantship in the US in CS (where my heart was). I am grateful for the education I got there.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#115

Post by pocha » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 3:52 AM UTC

Being an Indian, I agree that it is a mad race & it is very tough to identify the right guys in the vast pool of students coming out every year.

I faced similar issue in my previous startup & to solve it, started http://stalkninja.com . It is a way a deserving & self-starter student can differentiate himself/herself from the rest even if they are not from one of the top colleges like IITs.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#116

Post by ShabbyDoo » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:20 AM UTC

SingAlong wrote: post #48

magic_haze wrote: post #30

As an Indian student who tried to get through the "system", I can relate to this. I was really into computers and programming in high school, so I decided to go into the engineering stream in the "+2" years (basically, 11th and 12th grades, as opposed to the biology stream, which supposedly preps you for medical school). I remember the parental and peer pressure particularly well: my dad was pretty much opposed to it…

I can relate to you but I did take up CompSci in 11th and 12th grades and was pushed by my parents to stick to what I wanted (lucky). They had probably noticed that I was spending too much time on the computer trying to create something or just tinker with it. Joined Info Science engg later. But I've been disappointed since. I had to scrape through chem, physics and civil subjects (compulsory common subjects at my un…

If social status == money, why is starting a company so frowned-upon by Indian parents? Is it risk aversion on the part of brides' families? Is it considered better to marry your daughter off to, say, an IBMer where both the upsides and downsides are bounded than it is for your daughter to marry someone who is a risk taker? BTW, I'm a white American guy who is simply trying to understand.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#117

Post by bryanwb » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:42 AM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #65

bryanwb wrote: post #33

I ran a startup in Kathmandu, Nepal for 4 years (www.olenepal.org) and this mirrors my experience there. The modus operandi of Nepali Schools is the "the teacher speaks and the kids repeat." this means that you can't judge applicants at all by their educational background. The best ones I had were almost entirely self-educated. Also, I think I found that only one in 50 applicants were worth hiring. That said, I belie…

Do (great) software engineers in Nepal really make 100k/year? Because I imagine that would mean a lot higher standard of living that it would in the US?

They do make 100k a year but typically after moving abroad. In my anecdotal experience, 90% of the "great" Nepali sw engineers emigrate. I do think you will see some move back and take high-paying contract work w/ them to Nepal. However, this depends on whether Nepal's political/economic climate stabilizes. By all accounts, the current situation is a mess and worsening.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#118

Post by danenania » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 4:49 AM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #94

csomar wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this won't solve the problem, does it? This will actually make it worse and lead to unhappy/tired generations. I'll actually sensibles people and push them to make a revolution.

The situation sucks, but only economic growth will solve the problem. The fundamental problem is scarcity - not enough wealth to go around. A revolution against economic reality will not create wealth. (Granted, a revolution against corrupt government workers demanding bribes might. If that's the revolution you want to start, I'll lend my pitchfork.)

"The fundamental problem is scarcity"

Is it? I think distribution is more the issue. We shouldn't underestimate the paralyzing impact pervasive bureaucracy and corruption can have on an economy.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#119

Post by raghava » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 5:01 AM UTC

ShabbyDoo wrote: post #116

SingAlong wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate to you but I did take up CompSci in 11th and 12th grades and was pushed by my parents to stick to what I wanted (lucky). They had probably noticed that I was spending too much time on the computer trying to create something or just tinker with it. Joined Info Science engg later. But I've been disappointed since. I had to scrape through chem, physics and civil subjects (compulsory common subjects at my un…

If social status == money, why is starting a company so frowned-upon by Indian parents? Is it risk aversion on the part of brides' families? Is it considered better to marry your daughter off to, say, an IBMer where both the upsides and downsides are bounded than it is for your daughter to marry someone who is a risk taker? BTW, I'm a white American guy who is simply trying to understand.

> risk aversion

Yes. In the West, it's your ideas that fail; out in the East, it's you who fail.

One word answer; culture.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#120

Post by danielford » Wed, Apr 06, 2011, 5:03 AM UTC

ashwinna wrote: post #110

danielford wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I teach college in the US. I have never been offered a bribe. In fact, I've never heard of anyone even attempting to offer a bribe. However, I did wimp out once when a student begged me to increase their grade from a D to a C because they needed a minimum GPA to play football. My thought at the time was, "This guy is a prick, but he has absolutely no future in the life of the mind, and college football is probably hi…

Can you be sewed for discrimination or violating grading policy. I am sure your grading policy doesnt say you can give arbitrary grades. Just curious, drop me a reply at soumya.5200 (@) gmail

I used a mechanism that was outlined in the syllabus. My understanding is that the syllabus is a legally binding contract, so no.

I'm not going into any more detail than that. I'm sure you didn't mean any harm by it, but it creeps me out a little when internet strangers start asking for information about how I could hypothetically be sued. I'm not a lawyer, and I'd rather not be surprised to discover there was some wacky clause of a law I wasn't aware of.