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Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

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Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#811

Post by freeone3000 »

pishpash wrote: post #795
freeone3000 wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the state's actual goal is to end gig work, by forcing gig work companies to actually treat their employees like employees. I'm for it. (It also seems weird to dismiss government action as politically motivated - of COURSE it is, it's literally political action! It's not going to be motivated by the tides!)

Then just come out and make a clean law against gig work. That's not what's done though. It's fine to be politically motivated, however it's not good faith to be motivated against specific businesses while pretending to be following a broad principle that then needs exemption holes poked all over it to make work. It indicates there is no principle being followed, or at least they don't know what it should be, a situa…

What is "gig work"? It needs to be very specifically defined. It needs to include Uber and Instacart but exclude beekeepers and software developers. So, as with most practical laws, it ends up as a very long list of do's and don'ts, so it actually covers the thing to outlaw while interfering minimally with others. This isn't unusual.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#812

Post by SrslyJosh »

chx wrote: post #783
deminature wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AB5 imposes an ABC test on businesses after the precedent set by Dynamex [1]. The specific point of contention the judge has is the B of the ABC - that is whether drivers 'perform work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business'. Uber argues it is a technology company first, and drives/delivers second, whereas the judge argues the opposite. Convincing arguments can be made for both sides. The mo…

> Uber argues it is a technology company first, and drives/delivers second, whereas the judge argues the opposite. Convincing arguments can be made for both sides. Uber is a mess. It clearly needs to be a franchise. You have Mother Uber that develops the app and sells the franchise and Uber SF, Uber LA, Uber Seattle etc that hires the drivers. It's utterly unclear to me what efficiencies can be found for having one c…

> It clearly needs to be a franchise.

Think bigger. Why should transportation infrastructure (which is a public good) be controlled by a private, for-profit corporation?

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#813

Post by aslfksdfl »

core-questions wrote: post #756
aslfksdfl wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it your experience in cities is extremely limited.

I really don't know how you got that from me being the one who's warning you things can go sideways. If you've only had good experiences in cities, if you've never been mugged, if you've never been scared, or seen someone else in such a situation, it's you who has the limited experience. Not that I want you to have a bad experience. Not that all cities are so bad, or that you're guaranteed a bad time everywhere. Ther…

I've lived in this city my entire life and the vast majority of scary experiences have happened to me downtown. Which suburb do you live in?

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#814

Post by valuearb »

freeone3000 wrote: post #770
valuearb wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an article about the unwanted side effects of monopolistic tax cabs. In a competitive market, this should happen much less. And the big innovation of ride sharing is it gives a valuable tool to drivers judge potential fares with besides their appearance or pickup location, specifically their rating.

Free markets don't solve racism. The "monopolistic" taxi cab company had numerous individual drivers, each making a decision. Moving this monopoly to Uber and Lyft doesn't work. And no stars are going to override bias.

Your assumption is that the bias is only racism, when sometimes it’s racism and sometimes fear of being robbed/assaulted. Stars definitely curbs the latter.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#815

Post by zests »

aslfksdfl wrote: post #724
mlrtime wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is an area racist?

Not the area, the drivers. Boston is incredibly segregated and in the area I live in is less than 10% white. It's not a coincidence that this is the only area in the city I've ever had trouble getting a ride to (roughly 200 total rides).

Which area?

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#816

Post by runako »

closeparen wrote: post #605
runako wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you consider all labor and environmental laws to have been crafted as a weapon? One could argue that much of our labor and environmental protective apparatus was written to curb behaviors of specific companies (or "business models," if you prefer).

It’s usually written to make existing manufacturing activity clean up after itself, or existing employment relationships better for the employees. There may be some collateral damage, but the intent is not to destroy. “People’s jobs should be better” is a different goal from “bad jobs should not exist.” It may be used as a tool to achieve the former, but we care whether it’s actually effective at doing so.

Is the intent here really to destroy? Is it really the case compliance with the law is only possible for employers like Walmart, The Gap, and thousands of other small firms in California? I'm very in favor of gig work, but the notion that the only option left is to stop work rather than hire folks as employees seems obviously facile. Notably, there's no exemption for the many other companies that operate passenger transport in the state.

Your last sentence is interesting because the entire point of a labor law like this one is to bring jobs under the remit of labor protections so that "people's jobs should be better" is something that can even be addressed.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#817

Post by SrslyJosh »

apta wrote: post #642
lhh wrote: post #638

> Becerra said in an interview on CNBC on Tuesday that he was unconcerned about the potential for Uber to leave the state as a result of the order. “Any business model that relies on shortchanging workers in order to make it probably shouldn’t be anywhere, whether California or otherwise,” he said. This type of attitude drives me crazy. These companies have paid billions of dollars to drivers, who voluntarily decided…

They want private companies to pay for the government shortcomings of not providing affordable healthcare and other benefits.

I really wish the government would listen to all the corporate lobbyists begging them to give us universal healthcare. =)

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#818

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

thunkshift1 wrote: post #420
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #405

COVID-19 situation has clearly showcased the vulnerability of the drivers regardless of the platforms, there's no merit for the drivers to be treated as contractors as they are algorithmically made to work beyond office hours to be eligible for the incentives. I hope other states and countries follow the suit if California forces Uber to treat the drivers as employees.

What do you mean by “algorithmically made to work beyond office hours”? You know the drivers set their own hours right? There are some who prefer to drive exclusively at night.

Yes, that's why I said- >made to work beyond office hours to be eligible for the incentives

I said that based on complaints I received from Indian drivers, • Need to work X hours to be eligible for incentives, incentives are used to meet fuel costs. • Algo punishes when rides are not taken during peak hours. • Majority don't own the vehicles, they are working office anyways for someone who owns it.

Anyways, main issue is many of the drivers are out of their work due to COVID-19 and if they were employees; at least some protections would ensue.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#819

Post by brianwawok »

SrslyJosh wrote: post #812
chx wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uber argues it is a technology company first, and drives/delivers second, whereas the judge argues the opposite. Convincing arguments can be made for both sides. Uber is a mess. It clearly needs to be a franchise. You have Mother Uber that develops the app and sells the franchise and Uber SF, Uber LA, Uber Seattle etc that hires the drivers. It's utterly unclear to me what efficiencies can be found for having one c…

> It clearly needs to be a franchise. Think bigger. Why should transportation infrastructure (which is a public good) be controlled by a private, for-profit corporation?

Because that’s how innovation happens in the US? How are passengers trains innovating over the past 60 years?

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#820

Post by brianwawok »

freeone3000 wrote: post #774
tlogan wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of AB5 is to help drivers - so they can get health insurance, etc. All these changes Uber is doing just so that drivers are not employees. The question here is: what is the problem with making drivers employees? How much money that will be?

Average monthly pay for an Uber driver is $400. Not all of them will qualify for health insurance, as you have to work 30 hours a week. Median health insurance cost is $600.

Median health insurance for someone making $400 a month under the ACA is not $600.
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