The Hatpin Peril (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#51

Post by cortesoft » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 11:18 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #8

crooked-v wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not just tell him off and walk away? It's very simple to find many, many anecdotal cases where doing this does exactly zilch to actual stop harassment, and sometimes instead results in a man aggressively insulting and harassing the woman for daring to refuse his attention.

Okay, but it's reasonable to at least attempt it before bashing or stabbing someone, right? The same thing could be said about many circumstances. Just because a non-violent attempt to defuse the situation doesn't work in 100% of cases doesn't mean it is okay to skip attempting it, and jump straight to stabbing or bashing someone.

If some guy sitting next to you on the train reached over and grabbed onto your junk, and then just stared at you with a smile...do you think you would be in the wrong to punch them instead of asking them to let go?

Once you move to physical assault, you lose the defense of "you should have just asked me not to do that!"

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#52

Post by cosmojg » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

cryptoz wrote: post #25

jschwartzi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're taking this pretty far down the slippery slope. Someone who "mashes" up to you by taking advantage of the carriage bouncing and then slips his arm around you without saying anything is very different from someone asking you for directions. I could see the former being a prelude to assault, while the latter wouldn't be.

The former is not a "prelude" to assault, it is assault.

For the uninformed, assault is "an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact."[0]

[0] https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Assault

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#53

Post by danbolt » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 11:28 PM UTC

fxtentacle wrote: post #45

This appears to be a topic that the HN community is unwilling to discuss neutrally.

What do you feel the ideal neutrality for this topic looks like on HN?

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#54

Post by dx87 » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 11:31 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #18

epicureanideal wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think stabbing someone has a very high chance of making the situation far more dangerous than just asking the person to stop. Also, it has been true for centuries that a woman screaming "help!" would draw the attention of all the men in the area (for example the carriage driver in this case) who would be eager to beat the other man to a pulp if he didn't stop harassing her. Women and children first into the lifeboa…

> Also, it has been true for centuries that a woman screaming "help!" would draw the attention of all the men in the area (for example the carriage driver in this case) who would be eager to beat the other man to a pulp if he didn't stop harassing her. Is that really true?

No, it's not. I just finished reading a book where the author talks about growing up in the late 70s, early 80s, and one night his father started beating his mom with the buckle end of his belt. She managed to hit the panic alarm at their house, and when the police showed up, they police didn't even talk to her, even though she was standing there with blood running down her face. The father just told them that she got out of line, and he had to teach her who's in charge, and the police nodded and chuckled, then left.

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#55

Post by cosmojg » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 11:33 PM UTC

fxtentacle wrote: post #44

epicureanideal wrote: post #2

> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…

Wow, this comment got downvoted into oblivion really quick. It doesn't read as insensitive or provocative to me. I was hoping that people on HN would have the mental ability to tolerate an opinion that they disagree with and engage it with counter-arguments. But apparently, we're canceling unwanted ideas instead. If I remember correctly, a downvote is for spam, attacks, or other things unrelated to the discussion, no…

There are other communities with very similar content that have fixed this problem.

See: https://lobste.rs/ and https://tildes.net/

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#56

Post by scarmig » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 12:21 AM UTC

itshardbeing wrote: post #49

In response to some comments: If someone breaks down your door and enters your house, I (and I think most others) see nothing wrong with you defending yourself. Why is it different here? It doesn't matter if their intention is to rob you or not.

If an aggressive homeless person approaches me on the street and I'm not sure of his state of mind and intentions, should I be allowed to stab him?

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#57

Post by totetsu » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 12:33 AM UTC

Hat pins have some advantages, decent stats, light weight (don't need a special scabbard and you'll have one on you anyway to keep your hat on when flying) but they are of misc class, and your far better spending you EXP on another combat branch. https://dwwiki.mooo.com/wiki/Hatpin

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#58

Post by CarbyAu » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 1:16 AM UTC

Igelau wrote: post #16

epicureanideal wrote: post #2

> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…

Considering the state of medicine in 1903, there's a good chance he lost the arm or died.

We have no concrete knowledge so we're both guessing.

But have a look at history and you'll see that not every kid who skinned a knee got some horrendous complication. Chances are he didn't either.

Also, he didn't get stabbed with a broadsword, it was a hatpin. While we don't know, chances are he was fine.

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#59

Post by mc32 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 1:32 AM UTC

Obviously that was a sign of the times, so people found a way (people moving amongst semi anonymous crowds and policing not having caught up).

I think we are missing something in that today this kind of action would lead to a case in favor of the "people" (ie the complainant). But there are so many things that can be better handled by people defending themselves without having to fear a case against them. Like a home invader suing homeowners for something)

Obviously in a civilized society we expect people to behave so we have these tools of justice available to us, but in some cases, like these, I think this kind of action would serve to better deter uncivil behavior.

Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)

#60

Post by rimjongun » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

not2b wrote: post #30

I'm sure than in almost all of these cases, the woman had already led the man know that she objected to his attacks (and groping a woman without permission is an attack), either verbally, nonverbally, or both, and the idiot persisted. I'm all for the "hatpin girls".

You’re sure? No you’re not. You couldn’t possibly be sure. Try again.