Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 372 posts

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#361

Post by DetroitThrow »

cortesoft wrote: post #272
DetroitThrow wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The executive branch's broad authority to regulate foreign commerce has been a constitutional privilege from the beginning - Jefferson strongly advocated for it, for example. Only legislation would disallow this order from going through.

Then the lawsuit will fail, and the system works. What is the problem, then?

Even when the judiciary system works as it's supposed to, that doesn't necessarily mean that justice is being fairly delivered, which would mean there is a problem with the law itself. I think detractors here are misunderstanding what is currently the law and what they think should be the law, in this case.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#362

Post by foresto »

parliament32 wrote: post #329
mcv wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. As far as I'm aware, TikTok is pretty much malware, meant to collect every single possible piece of information it can get access to on your phone, so I would recommend everybody to avoid it, and I'm not opposed to a ban at all. What matters is the way it's banned. And why. And the current process feels every bit as wrong as TikTok itself. What the US needs is proper data protection laws. And then it should…

TikTok collects less data then Facebook, Linkedin, Google, and thousands of other apps in the app store. "It collects so much info" is pure FUD.. the app doesn't even request the Location permission FFS. Please provide a source.

TikTok might (as far as we know and at any given moment) collect fewer individual pieces of data than other apps, but they have been caught circumventing protections and covertly collecting data.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/tiktok-tracked-use...

Their actions are not justified by what other apps do. Regardless of whether GP's comment included speculation or was merely using hyperbole, the sentiment is reasonable. At this point, I think it would be irresponsible to defend TikTok.

See also:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23634138

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23684950

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725139

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#363

Post by nehemiah_ »

mcv wrote: post #301
crazygringo wrote: post #296

Good. We have something called "due process" in the US, and the attempted TikTok ban violates it. Due process is a bedrock of American law. It means government officials can't just "do what they want" and make arbitrary decisions with specific targets -- which is exactly what the TikTok ban is. You want to ban TikTok? Great, you need a specific law from Congress that outlines under what circumstances companies may be…

Exactly. As far as I'm aware, TikTok is pretty much malware, meant to collect every single possible piece of information it can get access to on your phone, so I would recommend everybody to avoid it, and I'm not opposed to a ban at all. What matters is the way it's banned. And why. And the current process feels every bit as wrong as TikTok itself. What the US needs is proper data protection laws. And then it should…

you can argue the same way to apps by Fb, Google, and etc. I guess you would also call Fb app a malware and recommend avoid it too? I dont mean to justify what TikTok did, but I'm curious what apps are not malware?

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#364

Post by nehemiah_ »

nafizh wrote: post #277
gampleman wrote: post #121

So if the problem is that TikTok is gathering too much invasive data on US citizens (and supposedly siphoning it to China), and their defence is basically "So what, it's legal and everyone else is doing it too!", then isn't the obvious solution making actual digital privacy legislation that would make such data vacuuming illegal? That would solve the problem and make the American market a fair playing field rather th…

How is it a fair playing field if US companies can't do business in China, and Chinese companies can do in US?

You missing an important point here, compliance with local laws. US companies CAN do business in China, only if they comply with Chinese laws. Whether these laws are just or unjust is beyond discussion of this thread, what matters is if you want to business in China, you have comply to it.

Imagine, if a Chinese company wants to operate in US but refuse to comply local regulations, what will happen to that company?

Fb, Google and others are banned from China because they refuse to cooperate. What about Tiktok?

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#365

Post by true_religion »

_8j50 wrote: post #355
true_religion wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you basically saying that TikTok the app isn’t being banned, but just made hard to find or use?

I am saying the business and finance of tiktok can be regulated but not the app itself. Appstores can ban it on their own but a law banning an app from an appstore is equivalent to a law banning a book from a library

I think you are trying to say that books can’t be banned... but books can legally be banned from libraries.

For example historically the US has banned books for being sexually obscene, demeaning to a particular group, or liable to foster communist sympathies.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#366

Post by true_religion »

anthk wrote: post #326
true_religion wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt is serviced under a contract. The worst a lender can do is not give any future debt. Now of course in the case of nation states, agreements are changeable by military and economic force, but in effect you would have to do more than simply hold debt to affect another counties economy.

China is the world's factory/warehouse today. Even more on a R&D world. Any war with China from the US would be shooting their feet themselves with a bazooka.

A factory and warehouse of civilian goods. That logic won’t stop people from going to war with China. It stopped no one from warring with the US, back when it was the major civilian good supplier.

I do think going to war with China is useless. The loss of life would be immense and I see no reason for people to die for ideological purposes. However, a Cold War is coming. No longer, can we pretend that China and the US will become genuine parters, with shard long term goals and policies. If we must be competitors, then it’s best to do it honestly and openly.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#367

Post by mmm_grayons »

pinkfoot wrote: post #358
_vbdg wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point. An "attack on others" isn't something that most Americans should be limited, if you mean by attack what I believe you do (please clarify). I'm not sure why you think the power to limit speech can't be abused: even with strict protections, we've had awful majoritarian policies like the Sedition Act and McCarthyism. We protect everyone, Nazis and racists included, because if we give th…

> We protect everyone. Oh please… 28 US states have actual legislation to prohibit state offices from doing business with companies or individuals that even threaten to boycott Israel. Not far from how NBA employees get censored by China. And there is more to come… [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act

The first difference being that there was plenty of successful legal action against such laws and policies which led to the law congress passes being changed. Legal precedent on the issue is very clear and so challenges to it have been quite successful, something that never would have happened in China. And, of course, organizations that support BDS aren't being kicked out of America. This is a pretty bogus comparison.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#368

Post by jmpman »

freeone3000 wrote: post #333
mmm_grayons wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? 27% of Germans support the right to speech that offends minority groups, and less than half of Europeans as a whole [0]. A Swedish man was convicted for producing art that was deemed racist, and the owner of the gallery that displayed it was fined [1]. A man was famously prosecuted for a video of a dog performing a nazi salute [2]. A refugee may be expelled from Denmark after he left comments "celebrating" th…

Reasonable people can disagree about the limits of free speech, and when it becomes an attack on others. The American obsession with allowing Nazis and racists has done nothing to improve the lives of its people.

I completely disagree. Seeing Westboro Baptist Church on TV spewing their vile hatred acts as a shining litmus test that I don’t live in a totalitarian state. Watching thousands of people actively try to protect victims of the Westboro hate, gives me faith that I live in a country filled with people with great ethical resolve and compassion towards their fellow man. It’s beautiful, and the essence of what makes me proud to be an American.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#369

Post by tooltalk »

khuey wrote: post #73
tooltalk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think Congress, both the House and Senate, also overwhelmingly voted to ban Tiktok because of the poor showing at Tulsa rally? smh

Congress voted to ban it from federally owned computers which is much different than a blanket nationwide sanction.

That's because Congress can't put a blanket nationwide sanction expediently -- it instead limited it to federal employees where they have absolutely authority, and pretty much cleared path for Trump's action.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#370

Post by tssva »

crazygringo wrote: post #296

Good. We have something called "due process" in the US, and the attempted TikTok ban violates it. Due process is a bedrock of American law. It means government officials can't just "do what they want" and make arbitrary decisions with specific targets -- which is exactly what the TikTok ban is. You want to ban TikTok? Great, you need a specific law from Congress that outlines under what circumstances companies may be…

"You want to ban TikTok? Great, you need a specific law from Congress that outlines under what circumstances companies may be banned in the US, and then prove the specific company meets those standards."

There is a specific law, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which specifies when and how a president can ban economic exchanges with foreign entities. I think you will be disappointed to find out that under this law there is no real due process required. The president only needs to declare a national emergency in regards to the ban and then send a report to Congress detailing why the declaration and ban are justified. If Congress disagrees it is justified they can pass a resolution overriding the ban.

Post reply on HN