Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election • Hacker News Board

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#281

Post by bitL » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

gdy wrote: post #199

bitL wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still remember the leaked Nuland's call saying "F * the EU" implying that US was the main change agent and the other caller expressing views that EU was too weak to do anything and they had to act. It looks like Russia has learned from that, manufactured consent to get rid of Lukashenko utilizing his weaknesses and expected actions (i.e. unable to resist corrupting the elections, suppressing protests by force) and…

Russian state-controlled TV channels are portraying protesters in a very negative light.

I might have overestimated how smart they were or they managed to strike an agreement with Lukashenko after a live demo of a color revolution.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#282

Post by macinjosh » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #265

macinjosh wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, reminds me of when Asst. Sec. of State Victoria Nuland went and handed out sandwiches to supporters of the coup in the Maidan! And we have the nerve to be upset when other countries meddle in our affairs? How would we feel if a high-level Russian diplomat went out on the streets in the DC protests and handed out food to members of antifa or the alt-right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztt72mpTPXA

I inherently don't like these sorts whataboutism used in your comment, it's a poor approach to questioning the morality/strategy of any country and but-the-US-did-x-minor-thing has long been used by dictators and the like to justify horrible things. Especially when it's not even top-down but a single phone call of some mid-tier diplomat. That said, after reading Nuland's Wikipedia her brazenness is something I'd expe…

> I inherently don't like these sorts whataboutism used in your comment, it's a poor approach to questioning the morality/strategy of any country and but-the-US-did-x-minor-thing has long been used by dictators

I am not questioning the morality or strategy. I am questioning the principles. Additionally, "minor-thing" is completely objective. What might seem like a minor action from the US POV on the other end things are often taken very differently.

> Most importantly this is not anywhere near the level of intervention shown by Russia. Really, it's extremely insignificant by comparison.

Again who gets to say what is or is not insignificant?

Lastly, Nuland was the Assitant Secretary of State. That is a high-level position, not a mid-tier diplomat.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#283

Post by macinjosh » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #260

macinjosh wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, reminds me of when Asst. Sec. of State Victoria Nuland went and handed out sandwiches to supporters of the coup in the Maidan! And we have the nerve to be upset when other countries meddle in our affairs? How would we feel if a high-level Russian diplomat went out on the streets in the DC protests and handed out food to members of antifa or the alt-right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztt72mpTPXA

But did we get free sandwiches? Then I'll see your false equivalency with an escalation of the rhetoric. DENIED

You failed to explain how or why its a false equivalency. Meddling is meddling.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#284

Post by ivalm » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 6:21 PM UTC

petre wrote: post #254

ivalm wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They explicitly jammed radio free Europe , for example.

Who did so, the USSR? A certain Eastern leader paid Carlos the Jackal to perpetrate a terror attack at Radio Free Europe. Of course that didn't stop shut it down. https://pressroom.rferl.org/a/carlos-the-jackal-and-the-bomb...

USSR did. My dad lived in Belarus during the time (I was born there as well but we moved to the US when I was a kid) and said it was a bit of cat and mouse game re exact wavelength to catch the American radio. Ofc my memory is post soviet and there was no blocking but we still listened to it in the 90s.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#285

Post by gdy » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #281

gdy wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian state-controlled TV channels are portraying protesters in a very negative light.

I might have overestimated how smart they were or they managed to strike an agreement with Lukashenko after a live demo of a color revolution.

Or maybe they just don't do that kind of thing. Color revolution are American specialty.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#286

Post by sueuu3rid8 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 6:34 AM UTC

jariel wrote: post #247

stjohnswarts wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese are also rather good at shutting down the internet as well. why not blame all possible parties?

"why not blame all possible parties?" 10 years ago I would have said 'it's probably Western companies helping them'. Now, I would say probably it's Chinese. Frankly, because it's going to be so, so much cheaper, let alone it probably doesn't come with any potential political headaches, and, they are developing a 'core competency' in this. That said, Putin has serious geopolitical interest in Belarus, and himself is s…

Frankly, I don't see why it matters who is selling or managing the equipment. It's a pointless debate that misses the forest for the trees. Only children thought refusing to produce and export this kind of expertise would stop it from from proliferating. The demand and the money aren't going to go away because anyone in particular took the high road. Refusing to participate just means someone else gets the money.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#287

Post by m-p-3 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 12:08 PM UTC

dunefox wrote: post #270

kovek wrote: post #207

I believe Briar can help the people if they believe in democracy. However, I don't know how best to share knowledge of the Briar project to people in Belarus. https://briarproject.org/

Only available for android, so it's kind of useless.

If the authorities forces Apple to block the hypothetical Briar app on iOS from showing in that country then you're SOL, while you could sideload it without any problem on Android.

This walled garden has its risks when dealing with freedom.

An alternative would be Bridgefy, but that's a closed-source product.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#288

Post by m-p-3 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 12:23 PM UTC

crispyporkbites wrote: post #134

So hacker news, what’s the tech solution to this? P2P mesh networks? Encrypted DNS? How do we build a network today in peaceful countries that is resilient to state actors?

Starlink, Telesat?

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#289

Post by rurban » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #240

baybal2 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An ISP must be registered with the government and must follow laws in place for filtering content and working with the government. Whether the ISP is using any local infrastructure or "going to space" doesn't matter. An ISP should not be registering with the government, and it must follow any laws. Oppose censorship. Anonymous, censorship free communications is a lethal threat to rogue regimes. It allows opposition…

> "Anonymous, censorship free communications is a lethal threat to rogue regimes." Saudi arabia is still a dictatorship, despite being our 'allies' and having internet. They even dismember dissidents from time to time.

Usually they just throw them out of a copter. Like in the good old fascist Latin American times.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#290

Post by steve_musk » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:56 AM UTC

gpm wrote: post #205

liability wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a constellation as large as starlink, that would probably require a lot of missiles, even accounting for Kessler effects. Also, doings such a thing to an American corporation that's only one or two degrees of separation from the USDoD may prove to be a costly mistake. I think Belarus would need to depend on the strength of their relationship with Russia to avoid retaliation. That hasn't protected Syria though, so…

I doubt Belarus has the infrastructure to shoot them down, them asking Russia to and giving Russia the excuse that the US violated the Outer Space Treaty first might do the trick though. Depends on how much of a war monger Russia wants to be at the relevant point in time. They are spread out with many satellites over a small number of orbits, pretty ideal for Kessler, or pretty ideal for another satellite to pass by…

Or some Russian hardware mysteriously is “stolen” and ends up in Belarus with some little green men to operate it.

Would they need to shoot down the entire constellation? I could imagine them threatening to shoot it down (and maybe a few demonstrations) would be enough to convince SpaceX to stop sending signals into Belarus.