Live data from Hacker News

Veteran submariner on how sonar crews tirelessly hunt enemies they can't see

thedrive.com

11–20 of 85 posts

Re: Veteran submariner on how sonar crews tirelessly hunt enemies they can't see

#11
Obviously, being a skilled sonarman would seem require a good physical sense of hearing (frequency range, etc.), but as as the article mentions, the ability to recognize patterns is also important.

Have there been any studies or analyses to see if there's also a correlation between skill at, say, music (relative pitch, etc.) or language (detecting subtle differences in accents, etc.) and sonar skill?

Re: Veteran submariner on how sonar crews tirelessly hunt enemies they can't see

#12

> The second step in classification requires analysis. It takes 30 to 45 seconds to get a look at a new detection and discover what kind of engine she’s running, what kind of hydraulic pumps are online, and what screw blade configuration she is using. One can imagine ML making this job somewhat obsolete in the not-too-distant future.

Not sure why this was downvoted - it almost certainly is heavily automated already, and the article hints at it. Tom Clancy described a primitive version in The Hunt For Red October in the 80s. You'd expect the Navy to be very interested.

Re: Veteran submariner on how sonar crews tirelessly hunt enemies they can't see

#14
My father used to help design and build sonar of varying types for the Australian Navy (RANRL) when I was a kid. I used to love hanging with them all and even got to go on a submarine a few times. He had to be fully qualified for sea trials. I assume a lot of his work was adapted from other countries, but he still will not really get into details about what he did for them (70s and 80s). One little nugget he told me a few years ago: their entire UI/UX team were psychologists, engineers played almost zero role in that aspect.

Re: Veteran submariner on how sonar crews tirelessly hunt enemies they can't see

#16

I'm not normally one to promote Hollywood but the film Greyhound (2020) with Tom Hanks does an _excellent_ portrayal of this technology (albeit slightly more primitive) in fighting German U-Boats in WW2. Well worth a watch if this interests you.

That movie and Master and Commander are two movies that helped a digital nerd like me understand how an incredibly complex system can be managed by lots and lots of humans playing very specific roles.

Your comment made me remember the book Cognition in the Wild:

https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/cognition-wild

Re: Veteran submariner on how sonar crews tirelessly hunt enemies they can't see

#17

I'm not normally one to promote Hollywood but the film Greyhound (2020) with Tom Hanks does an _excellent_ portrayal of this technology (albeit slightly more primitive) in fighting German U-Boats in WW2. Well worth a watch if this interests you.

Massive history nerd and I really enjoyed Greyhound because they didn't over dramatise it (much) and the attention to detail in the roles, speech etc was all very well done.

Re: Veteran submariner on how sonar crews tirelessly hunt enemies they can't see

#18

> The second step in classification requires analysis. It takes 30 to 45 seconds to get a look at a new detection and discover what kind of engine she’s running, what kind of hydraulic pumps are online, and what screw blade configuration she is using. One can imagine ML making this job somewhat obsolete in the not-too-distant future.

That's if they aren't already.

Without having the data I can't try but I'd guess that Fourier analysis (or something a bit more clever to deal with noise e.g. Welch) would get you a lot of the way there even without invoking AI

Re: Veteran submariner on how sonar crews tirelessly hunt enemies they can't see

#19

I've heard the sonar ping from a submarine is so powerful that it will kill you if your a diver near the sonar dome.

235db! Apparently also kills wales and dolphins.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/93222/could-subm...

Re: Veteran submariner on how sonar crews tirelessly hunt enemies they can't see

#20

I'm not normally one to promote Hollywood but the film Greyhound (2020) with Tom Hanks does an _excellent_ portrayal of this technology (albeit slightly more primitive) in fighting German U-Boats in WW2. Well worth a watch if this interests you.

I was just going to say exactly this. It’s amazing to see them doing this with such incredibly basic technology. - Having to draw their ship and the submarine and constantly update its movement. - sonar guy is just looking at a screen that blips every now and then. - all communication by morse code - must be horrendously slow in the heat of battle - even communication within the ship is passed between multiple people…

They wargamed live during North Atlantic convoy attacks on the floor of a building in Liverpool. Players received instructions through letterboxes around the room perimeter and each could only see a fraction of the the battle. They could not see the u-boats at all as those were same color as filters they looked through. Information was radioed in from convoy escorts and scenarios were played out. Battles could last a couple of days.
Post reply on HN