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Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

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81–90 of 162 posts

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#81
post #73

There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. The only reason the limited networking is still up and running is not some residual generosity of the regime. It is because traditional PSTN and long range special comms ser…

Good idea, especially when times as serious as this.

Folks, when there is major unrest/wars going on, it's a great time to really think outside the box. You will need the most determined mindset possible. Be prepared to violate all communication regulations (or perish where you stand, potentially).

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#82
post #73

There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. The only reason the limited networking is still up and running is not some residual generosity of the regime. It is because traditional PSTN and long range special comms ser…

"...will also disrupt operations level communication between KGB, police and presidential security units..." Unless they have dedicated, completely separate communication lines for the security, army and the president...

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#83

All of these censorship resistant communication projects tend to assume that the network needs to be low latency, always connected, etc. It’s far easier to build a robust network if you relax that assumption, and cheap hard drives + e2e encryption mean you ought to be able to route a large volume of private p2p messaging / email in addition to any curated content that’s distributed more widely. https://boingboing.net…

scuttlebutt, mentioned elsewhere in these comments works entirely offline, and many of its users have absolutely terrible internet connections. It's designed fro that situation and works just fine.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#84
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX specifically said that this system isn’t designed to be a way to get unrestricted internet access in censorship-ridden states. Outside of the US, terminals will be sold by resellers that comply with local laws (for example, in China traffic will be routed through the GFW). Sure you could smuggle a American terminal in, but SpaceX won’t help you.

Is that because they want to reach e.g. the Chinese market? It would be the perfect showcase. Starlink could (and imho should) create a "dissenter backpack" with a starlink kit (Terminal and wifi hotspot) plus batteries for a few hours of unplugged operation. Unfortunately the size of the dish and the power requirements make it pretty inconvenient and risky for the user.

A lot of countries beyond the most strong authoritarian have speech laws much more restrictive than America's. Even beyond censorship, there are also basic spectrum regulations and so on per country that are genuinely very important and have significant international treaties around. SpaceX isn't trying to be some rogue player here, that'd be an absolutely enormous briar patch to step into particularly at such an early stage.

Furthermore there is sheer practical considerations: ground terminals won't be stealthy at all, and in fact it's not clear to what extent they could be stealthy against a serious state actor. By definition, they are active EM emitters in very specific bands and must be detectable hundreds of km up. With their phased arrays the emissions should be reasonably focused, but even so it's not like it's a tight beam optical link or even a covert wired tap. Use of them would probably be readily detectable if authorities cared to do so, they're literally broadcasting themselves. Military gear tries to avoid this with techniques like massive pseudo-random frequency hopping at low energies but that's not really an option here. And of course, operating at quite low energies and known frequencies, Starlink may be quite susceptible to even fairly primitive active jamming.

I hope it does serve some small democratizing purpose, but I suspect any of that for the foreseeable future will be primarily in the form of disrupting de facto cozy hookups, not going against explicit law by nation-states. Ie., in some places monopoly infrastructure players might choose to censor stuff they don't have to per se on their own volition for their own profits, or take under the table payments/coercion to give intel agencies access beyond what they're formally entitled too etc. Starlink might in principle force some of that out into the open, a given nation would at least have to formally put a law on the books (which might itself cause protests, changes in government if there is still some level of democracy, and international expense). But SpaceX isn't just going to flat out actively try to circumvent law around the world.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#85
post #82
post #73

There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. The only reason the limited networking is still up and running is not some residual generosity of the regime. It is because traditional PSTN and long range special comms ser…

"...will also disrupt operations level communication between KGB, police and presidential security units..." Unless they have dedicated, completely separate communication lines for the security, army and the president...

Moscow built an entirely second subway deep under the first for government use only so this isn’t at all out of the ordinary.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#86
post #82
post #73

There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. The only reason the limited networking is still up and running is not some residual generosity of the regime. It is because traditional PSTN and long range special comms ser…

"...will also disrupt operations level communication between KGB, police and presidential security units..." Unless they have dedicated, completely separate communication lines for the security, army and the president...

Which I doubt. It'll all be done by the lowest bidder the easiest way... Which is insecure VoIP over the public internet.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#87
post #82
post #73

There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments. What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country. The only reason the limited networking is still up and running is not some residual generosity of the regime. It is because traditional PSTN and long range special comms ser…

"...will also disrupt operations level communication between KGB, police and presidential security units..." Unless they have dedicated, completely separate communication lines for the security, army and the president...

The military uses it's own relay network, and will of course be largely unaffected. The military was also least involved in the crackdown, with an attempt to involve paratroops in Brest two nights ago. The response was apathetic and they didn't leave their trucks.

Police and KGB use packet switching network at levels beyond tactical, and it piggybacks on civilian infrastructure.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#88
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not that black and white. Some communicators for example delete messages after a specified time and don't archive by default. It's not perfect, and it's not supposed to be If something is not secure you can forget it by default, there is NO information system than can securely delete and protect it's delivered end user information, no DRM no Snapchat nothing, the consumed and delivered message can always be see…

First, that's why I wrote "hope" and mentioned it's not perfect. But "the consumed and delivered message can always be seen" is just incorrect. IF both sides destroy either the message or the encryption keys for it, then no, it can't be seen. (Just the metadata about it being sent)

> is just incorrect.

Your thinking is too narrow, i just make a screenshot of your message, or filming your Video from the Screen, that's what i mean by 'consumed', but yes if both party's delete the message normal encryption is enough even 'just' with forward secrecy, but the metadata is often much more interesting (even the NSA said that).

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#89
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...will also disrupt operations level communication between KGB, police and presidential security units..." Unless they have dedicated, completely separate communication lines for the security, army and the president...

Moscow built an entirely second subway deep under the first for government use only so this isn’t at all out of the ordinary.

Isn't the D6 system a myth made up for Metro 2033? Or at least never really confirmed?

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#90
https://disaster.radio/

disaster.radio is an off-grid, solar-powered, long-range mesh network built on free, open source software and affordable, open hardware.

Designed to be open, distributed, and decentralized, disaster.radio is currently in the prototype/development phase.

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