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Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

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Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#61

Post by DoingIsLearning »

barbegal wrote: post #55
iansowinski wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a document but Hong Kong protesters use it https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49565587

This article only states that the app had been downloaded more during the protests. Reviews in the app store suggest it doesn't work reliably.

For full-disclosure I have no first hand experience with Bridgefy or Briar, I suggested the former because it seemed like an alternative to _Firechat_ (which apparently is no longer available).

Having said that, irrespective of the Application layer, all BT based mesh networks are inherently fragile.

There are large performance variations accross BT chipsets (old/new and different manufacturers) and externals like BT firmware, OS variations, battery level, RF blocking/reflecting structures nearby, Law enforcement jammers, the number of nodes available (the more nodes in a narrow area the more fault tolerant it is), all of these factors affect the performance of such a network.

The point is, OP is asking for help to scope out what are the options. None of them are great, but the best we can do is to bring forward the known options and hope that those struggling in this situation are able to implement whatever they need to remain safe.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#62

Post by brabel »

thewinnie wrote: post #59
brabel wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have contacts in Belarus. They were completely offline for 3 days since Sunday. Only today (12-Aug-2020 08:00 UTC approx) it seems the situation got back to normal and I've heard from them. People are just terrified now and all they want is peace. They know that continuing protests is likely to result in a bloodbath and are understandably afraid of that.

I would disagree with your last statement. I have a lot of friends from Belarus, and at least from IT sector, they are really eager to continue protests simply cause they are scarred what can happen if current government will stay

At this point, it's very difficult to know if the people who want protests to stop (even if they hate their government) are more numerous than the people who want the protests to continue and grow until the government can be replaced (with, from what I know in Belarus, is extremely unlikely - given that there's zero opposition prepared to take over the Government). But at least for now, things seem to be calming down instead of escalating.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#63

Post by alkonaut »

easton wrote: post #58
Jaruzel wrote: post #26

The penny has just dropped with me. This scenario is exactly where Starlink[1] can shine (no pun intended). Find a way to get uplink routers into the locked down country and it would be impossible for totalitarian governments to block internet access completely. -- [1] https://www.starlink.com/

SpaceX specifically said that this system isn’t designed to be a way to get unrestricted internet access in censorship-ridden states. Outside of the US, terminals will be sold by resellers that comply with local laws (for example, in China traffic will be routed through the GFW). Sure you could smuggle a American terminal in, but SpaceX won’t help you.

Is that because they want to reach e.g. the Chinese market? It would be the perfect showcase. Starlink could (and imho should) create a "dissenter backpack" with a starlink kit (Terminal and wifi hotspot) plus batteries for a few hours of unplugged operation. Unfortunately the size of the dish and the power requirements make it pretty inconvenient and risky for the user.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#64

Post by Tepix »

izik wrote: post #12
Tepix wrote: post #2

Why and how is the internet cut off? You could send an email/tweet to SpaceX and ask to be part of the Starlink beta program. They'd have to be granted a license for your country first, however.

Why - I suppose that government want to get tactical advantage over protesters by limiting information flow and making protest coordination more difficult. How - both deep packet inspection + filtering and primitive solution - making communication services (mobile and broadband) stop functioning. Such things happen already in the past in Turkey, Egipt, Iran.

Depending on the type of filtering you could try to tunnel data across UDP (DNS?) or ICMP packets or configure hosts on both ends to ignore TCP RESET packets.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#65

Post by gnarea »

urza wrote: post #54
gnarea wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed 100%. That's precisely how Relaynet works (hence the name): https://relaynet.network/

I read the whole page and didn't find any information how it is supposed to actually work. The page compares Relaynet with Starlink and Ballons, but then it doesn't say how Relaynet work.

Hey Urza. There's a page and a corresponding video for each type of stakeholder: end users, service providers and couriers (who step in to restore connectivity with a secure sneakernet). Those are quite high-level on purpose.

If you're interested in the cryptographic and networking details, the specs is probably what you want. At least the introduction to the core spec: https://specs.relaynet.network/RS-000

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#66

Post by DoingIsLearning »

pjc50 wrote: post #19

For everyone talking about solutions that involve short-range mesh networking: Belarus is about 600km across and the capital Minsk is about 130km from the border with the nearest free country, Lithuania. For everyone talking about solutions that involve deploying additional hardware: who's going to pay for it and how are you going to get it into Belarus?

I think your input is really defeatist and non-constructive. There are plenty of comments that address long range communication with (e.g. storage devices).

It also underestimates the resourcefulness and motivation of those struggling in this situation.

It wouldn't be inconceivable that additional resources/hardware could be introduced either via smuggling or diplomatic staff. There is also a large and supportive diaspora of Belarusians in Lithuania and Poland that I assume would be willing to source and finance additional resources if it could tip the scale.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#67

Post by nix23 »

eitland wrote: post #60
throwaway89201 wrote: post #53

I'm surprised Scuttlebutt [1][2] hasn't gotten a mention. It allows you to create your own social media feed with messages, responses and media completely offline. You then gossip that feed to anyone you want, for example via the local (WiFi) network or even by USB stick. Long range communication is done by car or by train. There are servers (pubs) that can be used for more real-time communication. Or to make the inf…

One really dangerous thing about it is that once you send something it just won't disappear. What happens on the Internet stays on the Internet and all that, but no reason to write everything in stone - especially in times and places where governments thinks it is a good idea to cut Internet.

>One really dangerous thing about it is that once you send something it just won't disappear.

That thing is called Internet..Information never goes away, not even in the real world.

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#69

Post by gitgud »

Jaruzel wrote: post #38
Jaruzel wrote: post #26

The penny has just dropped with me. This scenario is exactly where Starlink[1] can shine (no pun intended). Find a way to get uplink routers into the locked down country and it would be impossible for totalitarian governments to block internet access completely. -- [1] https://www.starlink.com/

What did I say wrong? Care to explain the down-votes?

Not sure, but I think the idea of SpaceX intervening with political protests in a foreign country is a little naive.

The controversy they would stir up, is likely not worth the risk for the company's public image. Also I don't think the technology isn even released yet...

Re: Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout?

#70

Post by viraptor »

nix23 wrote: post #67
eitland wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One really dangerous thing about it is that once you send something it just won't disappear. What happens on the Internet stays on the Internet and all that, but no reason to write everything in stone - especially in times and places where governments thinks it is a good idea to cut Internet.

>One really dangerous thing about it is that once you send something it just won't disappear. That thing is called Internet..Information never goes away, not even in the real world.

It's not that black and white. Some communicators for example delete messages after a specified time and don't archive by default. It's not perfect, and it's not supposed to be. But it still raises the bar a bit - if your peer is not compromised, you can at least hope the history goes away.

Same could be done with "permanent" message by rotating shared encryption keys and discarding old ones for example, so you can build something with better privacy on top.

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