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India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

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Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#71

Post by metageek »

markfenton wrote: post #64
metageek wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But was it that way in Britain before India became independent in 1947? I thought the British "slot everybody into a job" system was part of post-WWII socialism.

Modern British universities have always required you to 'read' a particular subject. The major change after WWII was to make them available to more people by changing the funding model rather than the educational system they provided. The move to vocational courses for things outside the obvious (such as medicine) is a more recent phenonemon, in part bought on by large numbers of people going to university as it is t…

OK, but there's a difference between requiring students to pick a subject in advance and picking it for them.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#72

Post by jarek »

hvs wrote: post #46
grannyg00se wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"An important, but tangential point to note is that unlike the US, ...People join colleges already deciding (without taking a single course) what they plan to get a degree in." Isn't that how it works in the US as well? Don't students join colleges already deciding what they plan to get a degree in? I'm from Canada. When we apply to university we have to apply to a specific degree. First year courses are already tail…

You can change degrees fairly easily but, depending on the requirements for your new degree, you may have to fulfill a number of additional requirements. For example, if you are going to a large public university and are in their engineering program studying for an electrical engineering degree, you can switch over to computer science with very little difficulty. However, if you are in the liberal arts college studyi…

If switching from EE to CS is very easy, one or both are being taught wrong.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#73

Post by magic_haze »

dman wrote: post #69
magic_haze wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if my reply had any conclusions, but if it did, it is only that the difference in (supposed) quality of IITs vs. local colleges is atrocious, and this needs to rectified ASAP. However, it is important to remember this quality of education is merely a crutch, and it is completely up to the student on how he/she makes use of it. There are certainly many cases of students going way beyond what their peers h…

I am from India and have had my fair share of suffering at the hand of the Indian education system. I dont want to be an apologist for the status quo but do want the rhetoric to be cooled down. For eg Here are a few non IIT institutions which are pretty decent a) http://www.iisc.ernet.in/ b) Bits Pilani c) Anna University Also a) I think it is fair to say that a post which ends with "Horrible Stuff" is reaching some…

You're right. My bad; remembering all those days cooped up studying Loney and K.D. Joshi made me emotional. Yes, it certainly helped me breeze through all my college math courses, but it's that sort of experience I wouldn't want even on my worst enemy.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#74

Post by csomar »

magic_haze wrote: post #30

As an Indian student who tried to get through the "system", I can relate to this. I was really into computers and programming in high school, so I decided to go into the engineering stream in the "+2" years (basically, 11th and 12th grades, as opposed to the biology stream, which supposedly preps you for medical school). I remember the parental and peer pressure particularly well: my dad was pretty much opposed to it…

Thanks for the detailed comment. I just want to know how did you got the loan? The question is open for anyone too. I'm a third-world citizen looking to study in the USA and while can make my living, I don't think I can pay the expensive tuition fees.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#75

Post by sundars »

SingAlong wrote: post #48
magic_haze wrote: post #30

As an Indian student who tried to get through the "system", I can relate to this. I was really into computers and programming in high school, so I decided to go into the engineering stream in the "+2" years (basically, 11th and 12th grades, as opposed to the biology stream, which supposedly preps you for medical school). I remember the parental and peer pressure particularly well: my dad was pretty much opposed to it…

I can relate to you but I did take up CompSci in 11th and 12th grades and was pushed by my parents to stick to what I wanted (lucky). They had probably noticed that I was spending too much time on the computer trying to create something or just tinker with it. Joined Info Science engg later. But I've been disappointed since. I had to scrape through chem, physics and civil subjects (compulsory common subjects at my un…

what you are saying is true. But one does needs to standup to one's beliefs. I did bachelors education in India, Masters in Compu Sc in US. returned to India, founder of a startup which was eventually sold to a US listed company. So it is possible to do it. Just needs relentless determination as PG says

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#76

Post by pjscott »

waterside81 wrote: post #27
dman wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its included in the tution! http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/court-battle-o... Note: Story is about Canada not the US. Frankly I think its rather hard to fail in a US university course.

Anecdotal evidence: My brother was doing a PhD at Yale and was a TA for a 1st year chemistry class. He was marking papers and gave a few of them an 'F' because they were terribly done. The professor told him to re-mark them because the school motto is "You don't fail at Yale"

I had a professor once who had did something vaguely similar, but actually helpful: if you did badly on a paper, he wouldn't mark the grade on it. Instead he would write "Please see me after class."

After class, the (usually slightly terrified) student would go and talk to him -- and this guy, bless his heart, would do his best to figure out what the problem was, and how to get that student back on track. It worked, too. For a lot of students who get demoralized and let their studies slip, it's enough just to know that someone in charge cares about them, personally.

Ever since then, I've always thought that was how it should be. Grade adjustment is a pretty sad substitute.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#77

Post by nostrademons »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #37
grannyg00se wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"An important, but tangential point to note is that unlike the US, ...People join colleges already deciding (without taking a single course) what they plan to get a degree in." Isn't that how it works in the US as well? Don't students join colleges already deciding what they plan to get a degree in? I'm from Canada. When we apply to university we have to apply to a specific degree. First year courses are already tail…

Isn't that how it works in the US as well? In general no. Some specific programs may have a special admissions program (art and music are culprits here) and sometimes you need to apply to a specific school (e.g. Engineering vs Arts & Sciences). But usually, you can major in "Undeclared" for your first 2 years. I've always hated the notion that we expect 18 year old people to invest $25-100k on education in "Undeclare…

Isn't that what an index fund is? "Undeclared" stock - you'll get whatever the average of the market is buying.

Just because they're an undeclared major doesn't mean they're not learning anything. You still take courses for those first two years - you just don't know what they're leading up to. It's not all that unlike founding a startup knowing that you'll have to pivot to get to a viable product.

(I was a de facto physics major for my first 3 semesters, switched back to being actually undeclared for my 4th (flirting with philosophy and sociology majors in the process), actually declared as a physics major in my 5th, and then switched to a CS major in my 8th and last. Just because you think you know what you're doing doesn't mean you actually do.)

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#78

Post by jarek »

phr wrote: post #53
petervandijck wrote: post #8

"For their next challenge, they had to type 25 words a minute" That's pretty slow, right?

Steve Yegge says every programmer should be a fast, accurate, touch-typist: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirtiest-little-secret.html I couldn't find his minimum-speed prescription, just now, but he does say 70 words a minute is easily obtainable for anyone with two hands.

Yeah, I disagree with this post a lot. Unless you're typing out Java factories by hand with no IDE support, any speed approaching touch-typing is going to do you fine. 70 words per minute is not necessary.

Re: India Graduates Millions, But Too Few Are Fit to Hire

#80

Post by contravert »

rorrr wrote: post #59
magic_haze wrote: post #30

As an Indian student who tried to get through the "system", I can relate to this. I was really into computers and programming in high school, so I decided to go into the engineering stream in the "+2" years (basically, 11th and 12th grades, as opposed to the biology stream, which supposedly preps you for medical school). I remember the parental and peer pressure particularly well: my dad was pretty much opposed to it…

My impression (and I might be very wrong) is that both Indian and Chinese education is concentrated on memorization rather than understanding. That's why so few people from both countries can solve problems (at least in my work experience). I've interviewed a lot of people in the last 2 years, and I never look at the education level. I only care about your ability to solve problems. We've had people with masters in C…

The ACM ICPC suggests that Asian universities do quite well at programming:

http://cm.baylor.edu/ICPCFinalResults2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACM_International_Collegiate_Pr...

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