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Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#761
post #522

Mozilla's ace up the sleeve, which I'm sure has been a temptation to them many times - and seems more and more inevitable the more they brand themselves as the privacy browser - is to make ublock origin a default and baked-in feature out of the box. I see this as an if, not when situation. Google may pull funding immediately if they do so but the surge in users would be extreme, possibly forcing big G to reconsider o…

Why would that cause a surge of users given how trivial it is to add it to an existing install today?

And how would those new users make Mozilla money?

Maybe DuckDuckGo could pay Mozilla to be Firefox's default search engine and get many more eyeballs on DDG… but if uBlock Origin blocks adverts on DDG, why would DDG pay Mozilla?

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, this is what it looks like to cater to the privacy/security crowd. They have a picture of ideological purity. They don't actually use your product. Essentially if these were customers you'd want to fire them. People in this business always discover this stuff and then they're always like "Why do they hate me?". The answer is "they never wanted to love you. They want to watch you fall". Like DDG with their favic…

I use Firefox. I have used it since it was called Phoenix, and I still use it today, extensively, on macOS, Linux, and Windows. I'm just disappointed about what Mozilla has become over the years. It wasn't supposed to be an "agile" tech company, with slick marketing and UI/UX, making deals to try to get market share. It was supposed to be a non-profit foundation, making an open-source cross-platform browser engine, p…

This x1000. They get hundreds of millions a year to maintain a few foundational web technologies. Instead of doing that well, they are constantly on quixotic adventures with stuff like the Mr. Robot crossover and still fail to maintain core functionality. They lost the ability to fully remap browser controls in 2016 and haven't restored it since.

How do you have that much money for such a limited scoped mission and still get in over your head? And if so, what hope is there for anyone else?

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#763
post #298

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

After several years at Mozilla I eventually realized that the leader, not to name them, cares about fame, power and money, even more than "evil big corporations". That it makes a browser that is good for the web is a side effect. The people that brought balance got gradually left go or left out of disgust, allowing that leader to grow their compensation unchecked (2.5M a year now). I had a lot of respect for them whe…

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Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#764
post #568
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After several years at Mozilla I eventually realized that the leader, not to name them, cares about fame, power and money, even more than "evil big corporations". That it makes a browser that is good for the web is a side effect. The people that brought balance got gradually left go or left out of disgust, allowing that leader to grow their compensation unchecked (2.5M a year now). I had a lot of respect for them whe…

Not the parent poster, but I'll provide https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2018/mozilla-2018-fo... (page 52) as accompanying evidence specifically for the $2.5M claim. Mitchell Baker's compensation totalled $2.48M in 2018, with the second-highest-paid executive, Mark Surman, making only $322k. That page does note that Baker was "paid only by related for-profit" - but at best that introduces a conflict of interes…

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#765

[I am a Mozilla employee, and yes, I do recognize how my position influences my perspective.] One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards. OTOH, sometimes it just seems unreasonable and absurd. Stuff like, to paraphrase, "Look at…

If you're on the Firefox team (or know anyone who is) please encourage them to make Firefox customisable again.

It gets worse with every updated. More options are stripped back in favour of "simplicity".

Firefox made a name for itself by giving users control to make it their own browser; saying it has become a "clone of Chrome" is clichéd now, but that doesn't change the fact that it's true.

Firefox needs to stop chasing the Chrome user base and build back a user base of its own.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#766
post #614
post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Haha, this is what it looks like to cater to the privacy/security crowd. They have a picture of ideological purity. They don't actually use your product. Essentially if these were customers you'd want to fire them. Precisely this, and it's been apparent for a long, long time. The lesson that organizations should learn from watching Mozilla's reception in tech circles is this: never, ever, ever market to power users…

Sure, power users can be a pain in the ass, but if everything were up to casual users, we'd all still be on IE 1x, i.e., whatever that wraps the same broken, insecure, non-standard-compliant MSHTML engine in the shiny Windows UI toolkit-du-jour. Power users were the first to pick up Firefox when it was split off from the old Mozilla suite, and power users were the ones who began using and recommending Chrome when it…

"Sure, power users can be a pain in the ass, but if everything were up to casual users, we'd all still be on IE 1x, i.e."

How true. To paraphrase Henry Ford, if HTML5 developers asked instead what casual users wanted, we would now have a faster Flash.

It's history repeating itself over and over: developers and power users introduce or ask for something innovative, then casual users notice it, embrace it but also ask for it to be simpler to use ("50 knobs are too many, we want it to be usable with 3!"), therefore many functions are automated, other removed and interfaces are dumbed down to make the product palatable to the lowest denominator; however now the product has lost most of its "cool factor", not to mention some advanced functions, and doesn't attract power users anymore, many of them ending up migrating elsewhere. Rinse, repeat.

That is not going to happen to Firefox, since the war for conquering casual users has already been fought and won by Google thanks to their pervasive advertising telling everyone the lie that Chrome is better and safer. Mozilla should instead focus on giving power users the best possible product wrt security and privacy, two aspects where it would win hands down against Google, while at the same time try not to lose those among casual users who happen to be concerned about privacy and security and to whom Chrome would not be an option.

As for Mozilla's need to become profitable, why don't they attempt to use their widely known brand to sell personalized Pi-Hole-like boxes, hardware firewalls, VPN bricks that connect together from here to there, etc. Imagine two boxes with network plus audio ports: you connect mic, headphones, optional camera, a network cable, your laptop and the two boxes will establish an authentic E2E encrypted voice + video + data communication from anywhere to anywhere, no other operations required. Mozilla could surely provide the necessary services to get around NATted or filtered connections, and the shiny boxes with their logo would ease the association between the brand and the concept of private communications, security, privacy etc. helping as a consequence the adoption of Firefox as well. I think if they really want to focus on privacy and security they shouldn't ignore the hardware field where their brand can still make a difference.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#767

Mozilla needs to stop prattling on about being a "world-class, modern, multi-product internet organisation" and being "diverse" and "inclusive" and "battling systemic racism" and get back to developing its core products which people actually want to use. Stop with the fluff and the airy blog posts and societal ambitions and get back to doing actual engineering which gets people back using your products. You may have…

100% this.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#768

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

While I agree with this: > Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There is also this: > As of today, the Thunderbird project will be operating from a new wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation, MZLA Technologies Corporation. [1] (January 28th 2020) I think that proper email and calendar is what people need too. It's a big market and something you would more obviously pay for than a browser. Pro…

> Protonmail doesn't have a good calendar

That's about to change though, beta is already out for payed users.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they cannot succeed in making Firefox better, the problem is bigger than I thought. So basically, they’ll try to gain income from other sources, because they have given up on increasing the Firefox market share, and anticipate losing the revenue that comes with it?

"Mozilla's contract with Google to include Google as the default search provider inside Firefox is set to expire later this year, and the contract has not been renewed" Aka the browser will no longer bring them any money to sustain themselves. It's sad but we're basically seeing a chromium near-monopoly coming.

Not renewed yet or will not be renewed?

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#770
post #453

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

Two words for you. (1) Rust. (2) Thunderbird. Each represents a huge value to the community. New and untried consumer products? Well, maybe. You never know which could be a big hit. Still it's not obvious how to make money on any of these :(

They could provide official MOOC for rust, easy to do and I'm sure highly valuable if they include stuff like q&a with actual language developers.
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