How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model • Hacker News Board

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#141

Post by chpmrc » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 11:55 PM UTC

What if procrastination was the simple act of postponing something just because...you can. Erase the 9-5, the arbitrary deadlines, the impossible requests of a boss, a client or a partner. Poof! Procrastination conceptually ceases to exist.

It's ok to do nothing for 2 days and then put in 12 hours straight of purely productive coding, if you are not supposed to follow a specific timetable.

It's ok to be a few days late on a deadline if that deadline has no reason to exist (which, let's be honest, most don't).

It's ok to spend a few weeks on a project then abandon it for a few weeks only to rediscover the joy of working on it afterwards if there is nobody constantly asking "is it ready yet?".

Because, let's face it, nobody in their right mind procrastinates if their livelihood is on the line or if it means letting someone down. We only procrastinate when we can. And if it gets so bad that you just can't get around to doing something, no matter how hard you try, congratulations! You've just found something you hate doing :)

What if it was all that simple?

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#142

Post by james_s_tayler » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:01 AM UTC

georgespencer wrote: post #25

It’s clearly not the case for everyone, but I struggled for an extended period of time with a few things in my personal and professional life: 1. Remarkable focus in topics which interest me and remarkable lack of focus in topics which do not. 2. Leaving “must do” tasks in areas of little interest until the very last moment, resulting in a predictable lack of excellence in execution. 3. Periodic deep dives into topic…

Getting diagnosed this year changed my life too.

I'm sure at some level the standard science and advice still applies but it's truly as those mechanisms aren't likely missing in our brains, but it's truly remarkable how the developmental delays change your brain such that things really are different for you and it's not just a matter of "trying harder" or "applying yourself".

I was absolutely stunned at the profound impact it had on my life once I was able to connect the dots together. Equally stunned at the drastic improvements I've been able to make without following the standard advice but by following what works specifically for ADHD e.g externalize information, externalize decision making etc.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#143

Post by ummonk » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:08 AM UTC

marta_morena_25 wrote: post #107

Oh cool, so basically this is about finding a way to cheat your brain into doing things it doesn't want to do. Maybe a good approach would be to find something you actually like to do instead and reflect on your choices and priorities in life? It's amusing that you need a professor to tell you how to convince yourself that your life doesn't suck. A more natural approach might be to change what you are trying to do in…

Yup. I mean we do have to make money, and deal with the administrative complexities of modern life, and we should find strategies to cope with that. At the same time though, our brains are not somehow defective or lazy for wanting to do more interesting stuff.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#144

Post by georgespencer » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:08 AM UTC

james_s_tayler wrote: post #142

georgespencer wrote: post #25

It’s clearly not the case for everyone, but I struggled for an extended period of time with a few things in my personal and professional life: 1. Remarkable focus in topics which interest me and remarkable lack of focus in topics which do not. 2. Leaving “must do” tasks in areas of little interest until the very last moment, resulting in a predictable lack of excellence in execution. 3. Periodic deep dives into topic…

Getting diagnosed this year changed my life too. I'm sure at some level the standard science and advice still applies but it's truly as those mechanisms aren't likely missing in our brains, but it's truly remarkable how the developmental delays change your brain such that things really are different for you and it's not just a matter of "trying harder" or "applying yourself". I was absolutely stunned at the profound…

> Getting diagnosed this year changed my life too.

This is awesome!

> following what works specifically for ADHD e.g externalize information, externalize decision making etc.

I bet everyone would love to hear a little more context around what this is, and how it impacted you, if you have the energy to share. (Me most of all!)

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#145

Post by parsley27 » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:10 AM UTC

chpmrc wrote: post #141

What if procrastination was the simple act of postponing something just because... you can . Erase the 9-5, the arbitrary deadlines, the impossible requests of a boss, a client or a partner. Poof! Procrastination conceptually ceases to exist. It's ok to do nothing for 2 days and then put in 12 hours straight of purely productive coding, if you are not supposed to follow a specific timetable. It's ok to be a few days…

I don't think that is the case for many people, myself included. There are two sides to this not being the best way to think of it for some:

- slipping on deadlines becomes cumulative and does affect your career or business; the more work that is delayed, the most difficult it seems to be to ever catch up

- there is a fast-approaching deadline for all of us, and I don't want to look back on what may be my last decade of high productivity and realize I spent most of it on Netflix and Steam

As said by others, procrastination is often a symptom of negative visualization of a task; if you can train yourself to drop the fixation of a task being unpleasant, you can overcome most procrastination.

That has worked for me; now, when I miss deadlines, it's more due to overestimating my energy than falling victim to my own procrastination.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#146

Post by james_s_tayler » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:10 AM UTC

Bedon292 wrote: post #109

georgespencer wrote: post #25

It’s clearly not the case for everyone, but I struggled for an extended period of time with a few things in my personal and professional life: 1. Remarkable focus in topics which interest me and remarkable lack of focus in topics which do not. 2. Leaving “must do” tasks in areas of little interest until the very last moment, resulting in a predictable lack of excellence in execution. 3. Periodic deep dives into topic…

Obviously you feel the medication is useful, but do you think just knowing vs the medication has any positive benefit? I have read dozens of articles online, and replies like yours and can always relate extremely well to all of the symptoms. Taken the online quizzes and all that. I am pretty much certain I have ADHD. And I have known for years. But, I have educated myself on it, understand how I work (or don't work)…

Emotional relief like "I'm not a shitty selfish person after all and it isn't my fault".

But if you employ a tonne of ADHD coping mechanisms and they work for you it'll improve things a decent amount.

I haven't tried CBT but it's a recommend approach. I'm trying (painfully slowly because it's not super interesting) to teach myself DBT to help with it too.

Dx is only strictly required to get Rx but an additional benefit is they do a differential diagnosis so they make sure it isn't down to depression, anxiety, sleep problems, trauma etc. All of which can cause some of the same symptoms.

There are a tonne of people who get diagnosed with depression and anxiety and the recommended treatments just don't work that well for them. Then they get diagnosed with ADHD, everything falls into place and they can get their life together so they're not anxious they're going to constantly screw things up nor depressed from shit life syndrome and the depression and anxiety go away.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#147

Post by james_s_tayler » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:11 AM UTC

georgespencer wrote: post #114

Bedon292 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously you feel the medication is useful, but do you think just knowing vs the medication has any positive benefit? I have read dozens of articles online, and replies like yours and can always relate extremely well to all of the symptoms. Taken the online quizzes and all that. I am pretty much certain I have ADHD. And I have known for years. But, I have educated myself on it, understand how I work (or don't work)…

There is definitely a deep, abiding sense of relief and peace at the fact that a lot of things which caused me pain in the past now make sense. That doesn't help with the day-to-day of things, but it does contribute to an overall happiness which I do not think the medication alone would offer me.

Agreed 100%

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#148

Post by throwawayaug20 » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:14 AM UTC

georgespencer wrote: post #25

It’s clearly not the case for everyone, but I struggled for an extended period of time with a few things in my personal and professional life: 1. Remarkable focus in topics which interest me and remarkable lack of focus in topics which do not. 2. Leaving “must do” tasks in areas of little interest until the very last moment, resulting in a predictable lack of excellence in execution. 3. Periodic deep dives into topic…

a big question is how does one find a therapist/psychiatrist?

a seemingly simple yelp/google search yields a sea of anonymous faces and trusting these strangers with your brain already feels daunting.

i'm in san francisco and am on a PPO if anyone has any recs. email in bio, thank you!

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#149

Post by james_s_tayler » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:19 AM UTC

koreth1 wrote: post #104

tikhonj wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in a similar position. I did a bunch of reading on ADHD, convinced myself that I probably had it then I found a clinical psychologist who specialized in ADHD and reached out for an initial appointment. Apparently this is a pretty common story for people with ADHD who weren't diagnosed as children, so a specialist won't be particularly surprised by it. The initial appointment is probably going to be an in-depth…

> Apparently this is a pretty common story for people with ADHD who weren't diagnosed as children, so a specialist won't be particularly surprised by it. This is very true. And it's not even just due to lack of access to mental health care as a child: everyone over a certain age will have grown up before "ADHD" was a recognized disorder, and thus couldn't have been diagnosed with it no matter what their symptoms were…

It's a lot better recognized and studied than it was in the 80s and 90s. Especially the recognition that while for some it goes into remission (somehow???) or at least becomes sub-clinical, there are a large number of us who continue to struggle with it our whole lives. It's kind of demeaning when it's seen as a children's disorder.

When you're a kid it's not that bad cos you have structure provided for you and little to no responsibility. You're just a constant pain in the ass. That's why it's named after all the things that piss people off about it and not named after what the lived experience is like or how it affects us internally. When you're an adult and you are responsible for structure and getting things done and holding down job it can silently and slowly crush you. It's a much bigger problem once you're an adult.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#150

Post by james_s_tayler » Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:29 AM UTC

wy35 wrote: post #127

czbond wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why see a psychiatrist? Are those really things to 'fix' on the whole - given the upsides? I'm incredibly energetic. I can't sit down for long - so I just stand in meetings. TV is a waste of time, so is social small talk, I do what I care about (and it rewarded me well). I've just felt like the speed, risk tolerance, freedom it provides me, and intuition make a powerful combination. I'd say the ADHD (if it is) makes…

> I may be conflating ADHD with my incredibly independent personality I think you are, to a degree. Serious ADHD is AWFUL to live with and there's barely any upside. > I can't sit down for long - so I just stand in meetings. It's nice that you can mitigate not being able to sit down for long by just standing, but for many people with ADHD, not being able to sit for long is more than just stance. It's because they can…

The minor upside has been I just don't do what I don't find interesting. So, my life has always been interesting. Often that's not been in a good way, like boss phones "why aren't you at work?" and I reply... "I could probably make it there by like...11". This was at about 9am when I was supposed to be in at 8:30am. It was some factory job I fucking hated. The wall of awful struck and I couldn't seem to attempt to get myself there any earlier than 11. That's what my mind was telling me. He didn't know what to say, so he hung up the phone. He called back 5 mins later and told me not to bother coming back to work. I was relieved and terrified all at the same time. Relived cos I just couldn't do it anymore anyway. Terrified because I had spent the last 2 years freeloading off my girlfriends mother who i later learned took out loans to support me and I'd only just got that job 6 weeks earlier after not working all that time.

Life was fucking hell in my early 20s. In my early 30s I'm a successful software engineer (thank fuck) and it tends to manifest in me bitching about how the software should be, daydreaming of it being that way, then endlessly pursuing side quests at work to make it so. Turns out that is actually a valuable way to be as a software engineer as I tend to make the software better at a much faster rate as compared to my peers.