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Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

neomindlabs.com

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Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#401
I've felt companies would want what the post lays out:

- A safe software stack

- Make code understandable (industry best practices)

- Focus on employee ramp up time

I was confused when some companies stressed different things, and I didn't quite realize until reading this post that it might be coming from a place of fear of losing engineers.

What I've seen:

1) Committees for coding standards

2) Teamwork over code ownership

3) Peer code reviews to enforce quality

Sounds like these things would help increase code quality and reduce the bus factor. But I think there are some dangers.

1) Committees can mean that no individual is responsible for bad decisions

2,3) Teamwork is great if people have separate roles. Too many cooks can become a real problem otherwise.

I suspect people afraid of responsibility are more likely to embrace committees and teamwork. Dickheads incapable of working with others are more likely to take ownership (or else they'd be completely unemployable).

I also suspect many startups cargo cult practices that work well for giants, but are net negatives that encourage your employees to leave if you're small. Lacking ownership but getting paid super well is a better tradeoff than lacking ownership AND lacking amazing pay.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat related to this point: A large conglomerate I worked for managed to kill one of their major products by making the mistake of assuming that programmers are easy to replace with any other skilled programmer. So they moved a product team to a new office, knowing that the highest-paid people on the team would not choose to relocate, and assuming it would be easy to backfill them with inexpensive new hires at th…

>So much so that the only people on the job market who had it were these folks whom they were ousting. All of whom had found positions at competitors within a day or two. If they were the only people anywhere who had the critical domain expertise, then how could there be any competitors to snap them up? This story doesn't sound internally consistent to me.

Not the only people anywhere. The only people on the job market.

So the skills in question, while niche, still enjoyed a supply/demand ratio that ensured that the structural unemployment rate for people who had them was 0%. And most companies know to get who you can and then make sure they stay happy.

Unfortunately, large conglomerates tend to be very credientialist. So leadership positions tend to be filled with people who have diplomas from schools with a lot of name recognition, rather than people who have enough of their own domain expertise to understand the product's business environment.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#404
post #200

Being on the receiving end of poaching is simply a failure to compete in arenas beyond compensation. Not only must you compensate your talent at the top of the market and then some (including generous equity), but you must give your employees an amazing work environment with excellent work/life balance, while providing something for them to work on that motivates them on an ideological level. When any part of this ae…

> Deep down, most people aren't pawns that you can simply acquire with a number and expect the highest quality work from. In practice, it is extremely rare to find managers who effectively practice this. When you do, it's pretty amazing to watch in action. I've only seen one such manager out of hundreds I've encountered consulting. That manager's team members won't leave the team for even 2X pay increases, because th…

Thanks for that, it's encouraging to hear.

While I've no experience in the corporate world proper, as a solo founder 7 years into the same project I've a similar game plan with respect to talent, and just hope one day to have the privilege of giving it a go. Further (albeit slightly outdated) context in the link below.[0]

My scenario is more to do with how to put together a dream team, and convince people to join that team. With world-class talent, you have to consider that some of the people you want to hire are already quite wealthy and/or famous. Therefore, if you want any hope of landing let alone retaining them, you have to dig deep and discover what motivates them, and understand what aligns with their existing pursuits and goals.

If I ever do get the chance to hire any of these people, I'm not that worried about the sell. I've probably had countless imaginary conversations with each of them over the past few years. To even have the opportunity to talk to any of these people would be an honor, so the notion of somehow mistreating them, or failing to both compensate and appreciate them to the maximum extent possible just doesn't compute. That extends to the non-wealthy, non-legendary hires as well; if anything it's a healthy model to approach how you treat all people in your employ.

As an aside, one of the biggest problem I face with respect to hiring (minus funding and, you know, actually getting off the ground) is: who to approach first? Dream team assembly dynamics are very delicate from a game theoretical point of view, and I've begun to think this is perhaps the wrong way to approach thinking about the problem. Elizabeth Holmes infamously used the "If I get person X, then getting person Y will be easier." strategy to great effect, but she was a complete fraud.

There's a few ideas I have here that aren't fully elucidated, but probably could be thought of as consensus-based offers. Pitch people individually and in a personalized fashion, but with no expectation they accept the offer unless certain conditions are met, such as others on the prospective dream team agreeing to the same understanding, or even making it contingent on funding itself.

Assembling a ~50 person team pre-funding certainly is putting the cart before the horse in so many ways, but I think it can be done. The look on the VC's faces would something. "Here is the vision, here is the prototype, here's a team of 50 exceptional people—some of whom are legends—that have agreed to build this thing together, contingent on funding. Just need the money."

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22429827

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#405
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you should value them at 100k, because it is the functional equivalent of getting a 100k cash bonus, that you (instead of diversifying) foolishly spent on buying a single company's stock. You don't actually need to work at Facebook to sink 100k into buying Facebook stock (That you then forbid yourself from selling for 4 years).

> that you (instead of diversifying) foolishly spent on buying a single company's stock So, it is actually a bit more complicated, and better than that, and long term stock grants act as a psuedo stock hedge. This is a simplification, but imagine that there is stock worth X, that hs a 50% chance of the stock doubling in value, and a 50% chance of it crashing to 0$. You might think that this would be equivalent in exp…

hedging is not arbitrage. There is no free lunch.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the same note, what is the difference between a company being acquired by Netflix vs the employee being poached by Netflix. Why is the first one a positive and the second one a negative.

Perspective. The employer sees employees as resources. Property. Property doesn't have agency. Someone else is taking the employer's property, but the employer isn't being compensated for the loss of their property. But buying a whole company? That's paying the shareholders for their property. Therefore that's good.

The leap from resources to property is a slippery slope. Also, why should shareholders expect compensation for an employee who leaves as long as the he or she was doing whatever his or her function was till their employment ended.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#407
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But most of the time we're talking about something like $180k to $250k when getting poached to a FAANG In the last couple years we're talking 2-3x from our BigCo's $150-250K. Getting such an increase people do feel like being hit by a bus - at least my friend looked that way for a few days after getting such 3x offer couple years ago from a FAANG style company :) Our managers don't even try to match - during the 201…

Wait, are you saying 150-250k is standard and you can get more at FAANG? Most senior devs I know aren't breaking $130 in a flyover. To be clear, a lot aren't breaking $100,000.

Not sure if MN is a "flyover" state.

I lucked into a great job with a good, generous boss that values technical expertise and domain knowledge who also built a growing, successful business with high margin, recurring revenue.

I'm getting close to $250k as the lead dev/CTO. I wouldn't take a FAANG job for $350k. Maybe 2x/$500k.

Though I'd be afraid I wasn't cut out for it, and frankly, I'm not going to put in the work to get an interview and 2x offer from a FAANG so it's a moot point.

I expect if I ever have to change jobs I'll be taking a pay cut.

Our mid-level devs are getting $120-150k. We'll hire a junior - as in their first dev job - at like $70k but they'll be hitting $100k in 2 years. Raises slow down some after that but 10%/year is common. No grind culture, flex schedule & location (we have some people who live out of state).

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's go back to the Soviet style communism where a highly skilled engineer and a simple factory worker make the same money. That'll be the triumph for the society and the economics. Except that it wasn't. Know the history lesson.

Either you think America used to have Soviet style communism, or you have serious reading comprehension problems, or you're a parodist.

Is ad hominem allowed here on HN?

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So much so that the only people on the job market who had it were these folks whom they were ousting. All of whom had found positions at competitors within a day or two. If they were the only people anywhere who had the critical domain expertise, then how could there be any competitors to snap them up? This story doesn't sound internally consistent to me.

Not the only people anywhere. The only people on the job market. So the skills in question, while niche, still enjoyed a supply/demand ratio that ensured that the structural unemployment rate for people who had them was 0%. And most companies know to get who you can and then make sure they stay happy. Unfortunately, large conglomerates tend to be very credientialist. So leadership positions tend to be filled with peo…

>on the job market.

That's a very nebulous term, as this whole thread bears out. I feel sometimes like my comments are abducted by aliens.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law defines practices that, while they happen in a marketplace, are anti-competitive and thus problematic. It is not anti-competitive to own the gas station next to the airport and charge a premium for gas. It is anti-competitive to buy out surrounding gas stations and close them to extract higher prices, or to conspire with competing stations to coordinate pricing. Single-firm anticompetitive behavior, as define…

That's in relation to creating artificial scarcity of a product or controlling supply. Staff aren't a product or commodity.

Labor certainly is a commodity.

I have a relative who bought a very nice beach house from his legal fees suing a hospital network for doing something similar.

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