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Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

#51

Post by tomohawk »

valuearb wrote: post #8
PeterisP wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the administration could say that Apple only has to block wechat from the US app store, it's not what they have done and they have not indicated that they want to go that way; the currently announced prohibition, as far as I understand, would prohibit Apple to support WeChat anywhere no matter if it allows installing WeChat for a US phone this way or not.

The administration doesn’t have the constitutional authority to make such a demand.

Congress does, and Congress delegated the power to the President some time ago.

International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA)

the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)

section 301 of title 3, United States Code

Re: Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

#52

Post by vmception »

oxymoran wrote: post #43
vmception wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're talking about Google, Facebook and gaming consoles. Do you really think that is a strong argument? We're cutting some Chinese companies out for some reasons, some of which are privacy, some of which are ideological (protectionist/privacy), some of which are petty. They cut some western companies out for some reasons, some of which are content based, some of which are ideological (content/privacy), some…

No, they are being cut out because they are owned by Communists who have over a million people in forced re-education camps and have ambitions of replacing the US as the global superpower.

No, this article is not about that. WeChat ban is about national security - privacy, because Americans are having their data mined.

The only sanctions levied because "they are owned by Communists who have over a million people in forced re-education camps" have been on 11 Chinese suppliers that have been barred from obtaining some US licenses.

So you have to accept that pretty absolutely nothing is happening because of that, and thats what you are going to have to tell your children when they are old enough to ask.

Re: Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

#53

Post by mensetmanusman »

javert wrote: post #49
mensetmanusman wrote: post #27

Hmmm, China bans western companies, but complains when the behavior is reciprocated.

The problem isn't that banning WeChat and TikTok hurts China. The problem is that it hurts America and Americans. It hurts Americans that want to use these apps, and it hurts Americans that work at these companies (TikTok has a lot of American employees). It also has broader ramifications (damages the rule of law, dis-incentivizes foreign investment in the U.S., and so on).

Americans are also hurt using this app when their activity inadvertently supports the Chinese police state.

https://citizenlab.ca/2020/05/we-chat-they-watch/

Re: Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

#54

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

vmception wrote: post #34
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever someone says this, I ask them which companies are banned (far fewer than many Westerners seem to think), and point out that Western companies are far more ubiquitous in China than vice versa.

I think we're talking about Google, Facebook and gaming consoles. Do you really think that is a strong argument? We're cutting some Chinese companies out for some reasons, some of which are privacy, some of which are ideological (protectionist/privacy), some of which are petty. They cut some western companies out for some reasons, some of which are content based, some of which are ideological (content/privacy), some…

Yes, because it gets to the central misconception that these discussions always begin with: that Western companies somehow can't operate in China.

If we begin from an understanding of the actual situation - that Western companies have a massive presence in China, far beyond the presence that Chinese companies have in the West - then we can have a conversation. But these conversations almost always begin from the exact opposite premise.

Re: Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

#55

Post by mensetmanusman »

javert wrote: post #49
mensetmanusman wrote: post #27

Hmmm, China bans western companies, but complains when the behavior is reciprocated.

The problem isn't that banning WeChat and TikTok hurts China. The problem is that it hurts America and Americans. It hurts Americans that want to use these apps, and it hurts Americans that work at these companies (TikTok has a lot of American employees). It also has broader ramifications (damages the rule of law, dis-incentivizes foreign investment in the U.S., and so on).

American can use apps like signal, or other E2E-E type

Re: Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

#56

Post by valuearb »

reaperducer wrote: post #38
valuearb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A presidential order is not a law, and if unconstitutional like this one, never has to be obeyed anywhere.

never has to be obeyed anywhere That's not how it works. It has to be obeyed until invalidated by a court. You can't just tell a law enforcement agency, "I know the president said x , but that's unconstitutional." Law enforcement is not lawyers, or constitutional scholars. That's for the judiciary to sort out.

You have it backwards, law enforcement has to go to court to attempt to have WeChat removed from Apple devices. They can’t just confiscate random iPhones to scrape it off their storage, and they aren’t bursting into Apple HQ to force its removal from their servers.

Re: Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

#57

Post by valuearb »

tomohawk wrote: post #51
valuearb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The administration doesn’t have the constitutional authority to make such a demand.

Congress does, and Congress delegated the power to the President some time ago. International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA) the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) section 301 of title 3, United States Code

Those acts clearly exempts information services from these powers.

Re: Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

#58

Post by ikerdanzel »

golem14 wrote: post #7
PeterisP wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the administration could say that Apple only has to block wechat from the US app store, it's not what they have done and they have not indicated that they want to go that way; the currently announced prohibition, as far as I understand, would prohibit Apple to support WeChat anywhere no matter if it allows installing WeChat for a US phone this way or not.

... because the current admin is not exactly in the habit of thinking ahead. I see no reason they intentionally want to hurt the goose laying golden eggs. I’d be happy to learn valid reasons why though.

I doubt he is not thinking ahead. Just seeing jobs start to come back to US when the previous one claimed no magic wand can do it already indicate the orange man are no ordinary tactician. He ended ISIS just by bombing them to hell while the previous with a Nobel, free helicopterloads of money and 2 terms couldn't. Look at the outcome. If the ends is good, the means may not be that stupid as you might perceived. The guy able to do Art of War even better than the people who read it as part of national educational syllabus since young.

Re: Trump's WeChat ban threatens Apple's smartphone sales in China

#59

Post by tatrajim »

amaccuish wrote: post #45
mensetmanusman wrote: post #27

Hmmm, China bans western companies, but complains when the behavior is reciprocated.

China doesn't ban western companies because they're western, but because they refuse to follow local laws. LinkedIn and Bing show that when a company follows local laws, it can operate. WeChat and TikTok are being banned simply because they are Chinese.

As in when Apple iTunes movies and books were suddenly shut down in China after six months of legal operation, with no explanation?

If you're Chinese, you'll appreciate the casual contempt openly expressed in the frequently referenced epithet "laiwai" 老外. And ask any foreign businessman in China if they're discriminated against.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/technology/apple-no-longe...

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