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Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

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Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#141

Post by bitL »

adventured wrote: post #138
bitL wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks plausible that Russia is trying to follow the US playbook in Ukraine, i.e. a controllable quasi-chaotic removal of a person in power that goes against their interests and outlived his usefulness (this time enlarging Russia), while getting a popular support for it and making sure the other party (US) can't do the same. I don't think Russia can afford losing another buffer separating it from EU, so anything is…

You say the US re Ukraine. It's actually Western European powers, which have dramatically more influence over the situation in Ukraine - they always have, and they always will - than the US does. It's hilarious that people think the US controls every aspect of planet Earth, such that it can just point its finger at things and make them the way it wants them to be. The bipolar response to US capabilities is the amusin…

I still remember the leaked Nuland's call saying "F* the EU" implying that US was the main change agent and the other caller expressing views that EU was too weak to do anything and they had to act. It looks like Russia has learned from that, manufactured consent to get rid of Lukashenko utilizing his weaknesses and expected actions (i.e. unable to resist corrupting the elections, suppressing protests by force) and had trained people in the background ready to take over. I guess Russia decided to preempt any potential US/EU action by simply replaying the same scenario they saw in Ukraine, Georgia etc. with the ability to steer its outcome at a time that is favorable to them (COVID-19, economy down).

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#142

Post by fuoqi »

adventured wrote: post #138
bitL wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks plausible that Russia is trying to follow the US playbook in Ukraine, i.e. a controllable quasi-chaotic removal of a person in power that goes against their interests and outlived his usefulness (this time enlarging Russia), while getting a popular support for it and making sure the other party (US) can't do the same. I don't think Russia can afford losing another buffer separating it from EU, so anything is…

You say the US re Ukraine. It's actually Western European powers, which have dramatically more influence over the situation in Ukraine - they always have, and they always will - than the US does. It's hilarious that people think the US controls every aspect of planet Earth, such that it can just point its finger at things and make them the way it wants them to be. The bipolar response to US capabilities is the amusin…

You haven't looked deep into Ukrainian situation, do you? Western European countries have continuously expressed their frustration at the fact that Ukraine does not follow the Minsk agreements to no avail. They would like for mutual sanctions between them and Russia to be gone as soon as possible and Ukrainian unwillingness to follow Minsk agreements silently supported by US (and not so silently via supplies of lethal military equipment) makes it harder (since the civil war is still ongoing).

Meanwhile Derkach tapes have shown that Ukraine wasn't far from a puppet state and for current government just a little warning from US was enough to stop any investigations into potential Poroshenko treason just because it may influence US elections. Just think about it! Also US has a significant influence over WMF, which openly dictates how Ukraine should behave in certain key areas.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#143

Post by actuator »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #137
actuator wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although a very unfair comparison, and I don't agree with it. But I think his point was three years back people were more than willing to protest for an "armed millitant"[1] and a lot of that was organized through social media. But this doesn't mean it is right, internet is a fundamental right at this point. You can't just deprive people from it with a blanket ban. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burhan_Wani

your words, "people were more than willing to protest for an "armed millitant" " where do you say terrorism in that sentence? did hongkong stop internet when there were protests? or BLM which were protests organised on social media, telegram, whatsapp, facebook? or do rules apply differently when protests are against injustices in usa and kashmir?

As I said, I support restoring internet access but giving the HK example wrt Kashmir is more like a strawman argument. HK situation is nowhere what Kashmir's is. HKers are fighting for democratically elected government. Look at what the guy in question was fighting for, here is a statement from his Wikipedia page. [1]

> He oft-elaborated about the idea of India being entirely incompatible with Islam thus mandating a destruction at any cost, and aimed of unfurling the flag of Islam on Delhi’s Red Fort.

This is the exact sort of sentiment that have been used by the current Indian government and many others around the world to stoke fear and champion for their ideology.

I honestly think you do disservice to your genuine concerns when you defend people like him and this makes it easy for your real concerns to be muddled with such bigotry. Same with the protests. This will not help your cause and I honestly believe whether it is Xinjiang or Kashmir, armed separatism is not the answer and is never going to succeed. Both the countries do really need to find a better way to deal with it though.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burhan_Wani#Biography

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#144

Post by yurlungur »

About 20 years ago there was this optimism that Internet is this new unstoppable thing that will liberate the world to have free communication and knowledge sharing. Unfortunate that turned out to be such a false idea. Probably the infrastructure of it all simply wouldn't allow it...maybe that's what needs to change.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#145

Post by TrainedMonkey »

SergeAx wrote: post #87

Yesterday and day before editors of Telegram channel nexta_live [0] managed to report events in Minsk and other cities in Belarus. They are now seeng subscribers count boost from 300k to 1.1m in 2 days. The entire country connection was badly shaped but still alive. Telegram is famous for it's ability to work on a very thin bandwith, and also anti-blocking techniques. Today all mobile data is switched off, but there…

To put this into context, population of Belarus is below 9.5m: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/belarus-popul...

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#146

Post by [deleted] »

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #145
SergeAx wrote: post #87

Yesterday and day before editors of Telegram channel nexta_live [0] managed to report events in Minsk and other cities in Belarus. They are now seeng subscribers count boost from 300k to 1.1m in 2 days. The entire country connection was badly shaped but still alive. Telegram is famous for it's ability to work on a very thin bandwith, and also anti-blocking techniques. Today all mobile data is switched off, but there…

To put this into context, population of Belarus is below 9.5m: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/belarus-popul...

[deleted]

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#147

Post by OnACoffeeBreak »

hamiltont wrote: post #49
caleb-allen wrote: post #8

I have coworkers in Belarus who have been cut off from our (US based) company since the weekend. I've been able to hear from one of them intermittently, but it's a scary thing, I can't imagine what they're going through.

FYI - we have been able to get regular SMS and voice calls through (using Google Fi as our carrier). It was great to go from "absolute zero communication" to "we know you're currently OK"

Folks I've been in contact with cannot be reached by WhatsApp and email, but SMS seems to work. "We go from home to work and then straight home. Afraid to go out after dark so as not to get picked up by accident. Otherwise, everything is OK." is the message I got.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#148

Post by brnt »

dmix wrote: post #104

I've noticed this in other countries where there are accusations of rigging the results that the ratios always super high, in this case 80%. If you're going to fake an election result that had some legitimate measurable opposition, why make it so extremely high? Does that mean nearly every vote counting place is rigged and it's so bad they don't even bother hiding it? Just like when Crimea voted to join Russia it was…

I suppose it is intended to make you feel you're facing overwhelming odds, not just slightly more than a majority. It is different from the US, where a 51% score is enough legitimacy. At 51%, the Belarussians may smell jus enough blood to go for it.

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#149

Post by McDyver »

I had already commented this 7 months ago when Russia did the same thing.

"In the interest of the people everywhere in the world, there should always be dial-up access points available, in different countries.

The "national interest", for whichever country, should always be the people's interest; and restricted information has never been of any benefit except for those restricting it"

Someone had raised the point that with the current technology, modems might not work internationally anymore.

Is that the case? Can such a system still be put in place?

Re: Belarus has shut down the internet amid a controversial election

#150

Post by VMG »

sschueller wrote: post #105
brightball wrote: post #99

This is why I’m excited about Starlink.

Starlink is not the solution. A private entity then decides who gets what and the US government will also meddle in what is allowed. Do you think Starlink would be allowed to route TikTok traffic if it got banned?

competing Starlinks is the solution
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