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Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

neomindlabs.com

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Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#321
post #242
post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

But the FAANGs have a huge unfair advantage over startups - their size gives them monopoly power that disadvantages small companies. That's a failure of American governance. Economists used to all know that markets needed to be regulated to make competition fair --- and efficient. But the American right has pushed for 50 years to deregulate everything, and the FAANGs have benefited from this rollback of anti-trust. I…

Startups do have advantages: they can give early employees a bigger piece of the equity pie than FAANG ever could, and provide a gamble on becoming much wealthier than employees could become working at FAANG. They can also give employees more overall product impact, more autonomy, and better growth opportunities.

If you, as a founder, don’t want to give up equity, who’s fault is that? You’re expecting employees to work for a pittance of what they can make elsewhere and take on the risk without upside.

If employees are look at your business and decide the probability of their equity being worth anything is too low, who’s fault is that? You’re trying to dupe them into taking a bad deal, or failing to communicate the opportunity.

If your company cannot scale to provide market-rate salaries, whose fault is that? You’re expecting your employees to give up their salaries and their financial security to subsidize a non-competitive lifestyle business that suits you, not them. You’d better figure out some incentive where that equation makes sense.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#322
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really fail to see the distinction. If someone is willing to pay 600k for something, then the value of that thing on the market is 600k. That is what a market is.

The correlary is that McDonalds could offer free burgers for a year, they have enough money to handle the cost. They could do it just so that other business cant stay affloat. This doesn't mean that the market price of a McDonalds burger is $0

There's no need to contort an analogy. It's just like as if McDonalds pays more for the best employees, such as real estate analysts, beef sourcing agents, taste scientists. Other burger joints are then denied the talent. Nobody would complain that McDonalds are poaching real estate analysts from Burger King.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#323
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really fail to see the distinction. If someone is willing to pay 600k for something, then the value of that thing on the market is 600k. That is what a market is.

I would argue that FAANGs have the ability to overpay in many cases and still acquire talent which skews market wages. A FAANG can possibly pay 200K to an average developer who would otherwise may be make 120K in a regular company. So now the developer thinks they are worth 200K everywhere.

And they conspired to keep wages down because... the market?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google is willing to pay $200k over your current employer for you, your employer is paying you $200k under your market rate.

You can view this issue from another standpoint. Imagine some market where 10 companies sell bread and it costs $5. And lets assume that the costs are $4 and $1 is profit. Then comes a company that makes its money on selling water and it is doing very well. It comes to a bread market and starts selling bread for $3. The competition is quickly destroyed and the bread prices rise. Edit: as a sibling comment mentioned:…

Sorry, but that's not what's being described here. If you want it to be about your bread market, then the water guy is hiring your best baker because bread is worth $10 when combined with water, but only if it's particularly good bread.

Maybe 50 of the other 99 bakers at the 10 bread-selling companies are also capable of making good bread and will feel bad, maybe the company that lost the baker will feel bad, maybe that company will even fail because it turns out that really was their best baker... but in that case, it just proves that the water company was paying the market price for that baker. Which they were.

Spending more on talent is not predatory pricing.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#325
post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

In fact, the poached animal usually dies.

Given that these folks are instead going to become apologists for obvious abuses of power in the name of "making a difference in the world", perhaps radicalized would be a better word choice :-)

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is. And the high salaries at netflix are for top performers, not someone who did a full stack, once. Like you said, 99% of software developers are NOT the top 1%. ;-) EDIT: I removed some snark after reading Zenbit_UX's reply.

In response to your assertion that 99% of devs think they are in the top 1%, I'm not sure if that's true... Here's my case: Devs who work in a team with others are constantly exposed to the skills, cleverness and ingenuity of their colleagues. Most interns and juniors look at sys architects and senior devs with awe, not down on them. Obviously we're all exposed to incompetent dev's at similar rates, but I feel like w…

Good point, I edited my post. Thanks.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#327
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the FAANGs have a huge unfair advantage over startups - their size gives them monopoly power that disadvantages small companies. That's a failure of American governance. Economists used to all know that markets needed to be regulated to make competition fair --- and efficient. But the American right has pushed for 50 years to deregulate everything, and the FAANGs have benefited from this rollback of anti-trust. I…

Let's go back to the Soviet style communism where a highly skilled engineer and a simple factory worker make the same money. That'll be the triumph for the society and the economics. Except that it wasn't. Know the history lesson.

Either you think America used to have Soviet style communism, or you have serious reading comprehension problems, or you're a parodist.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short term, yes. Having a company with deep pockets driving up salaries is great for the people working for those salaries. I've definitely benefited from having a bunch of tech companies a short walk down the road. Long term, however, there's a risk of a monopoly forming, which isn't good for developers or society. FAANG are willing to pay big salaries because they are competing. If they use their power to destroy t…

> Long term, however, there's a risk of a monopoly forming, which isn't good for developers or society. FAANG are willing to pay big salaries because they are competing. If they use their power to destroy the competition, that market force goes away. Big companies have been overpaying developers for almost a decade now. It is not going away. It is not some short term thing. Instead, that is what these elite tech comp…

Yes. To oversimplify the model, there are nBut there is competition among those companies even if "everyone" else pretty much doesn't even try to compete with them based on comp. (Which makes talking market price a bit odd in this case. I imagine an economist has some term for it. I guess there's a market price for developers who can get a FAANG offer and then there's a market price for everyone else.)

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#329

I always call it the "lottery problem" instead of the "bus problem" because it's more positive. Also for some people, getting hired at a FAANG is like winning the lottery so it jives with OP's article.

The problem with either of those is that the chances of either of those things happening are incredibly low, so the urgency to act on it isn't there. If someone would tell you that you have to prepare to the one in a few million chance of winning in the lottery, you would likely also ignore it.

An employee getting hired by another company (doesn't need to be FAANG) is on the contrary a rather common occurrence, and a lot of people understand the importance of preparing for that.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#330
post #259
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through the same thing for years. If I were young (early 20s?) and single, I'd probably consider it. But keep in mind that's the high end. Most people in the valley also don't come close to that number, so it's a gamble without an offer in hand. I'm in my 30's now, with a family. There is no reasonable amount of money that could convince me to uproot and go to the valley. Sure I could come out ahead financiall…

You're making a lot of assumptions that are not necessarily true. You'll never know if you don't look. * Commute/housing: you can afford a lot of house in a good location on $500k (or even 250-300k which might be more attainable). * Long hours: varies a lot from team to team, and company to company. From my own experience, there's not a lot of correlation between long hours and salary, and a lot of people who work lo…

Yeah, I realized after I reread it some of those negatives are contrary to one another. eg insanely expensive housing vs commute time and whatnot.

I include commute time into long hours. Many people I knew there, admittedly NOT at FAANG, would spend an hour or more each way on a bus or train, plus 8 or more hours working, that's a huge chunk of the day. I'm remote, if that helps give a frame of reference.

As for crime, I guess it's just culture shock. I've had people tell me not to drive, and if you do drive and park, to leave your doors unlocked and empty your car, or else someone will break the windows and take things. And I've seen the broken windows. That, along with being harassed by mentally ill folks, was just a big turn off to me. Though, this may just be more of a SF thing specifically.

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