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TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

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Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#331

Post by curiousllama »

billfruit wrote: post #327
curiousllama wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't digital privacy; it's a fair bit more complex than that. Tech lenses aren't a great way to view geopolitics. The US' international economic dominance is predicated on a (1) pronounced lead in certain industries and (2) a simply massive economy, which combine to (3) let the US set the rules of international "fair play." The US is where you find the thing you want to buy, and the people you want to se…

If that is so then the whole discourse borders on the US government deceiving the American people by stating that TikTok is some data security threat.. whereas real reasons seems to be geo-politics..

Welcome to geopolitics

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#332

Post by parliament32 »

catsarebetter wrote: post #112

I don't get why he decided to ban tik tok and tencent and I'm not the biggest fan of his by any stretch of the imagination, but if America wants to ban 1 Chinese app, why is that an issue? They literally copied silicon valley businesses for decades in China. The problem I have with this though, is that it's not a way to get protect American interests, it's probably the first in a series of last ditch efforts to portr…

Because permitting banning apps without due process is a dangerous precedent. Next up will be Signal because you could use it to talk to dangerous foreign nationals, or VPN apps because you could send secret data to the evil-state-du-jour. Process matters, even if this particular app doesn't.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#333

Post by freeone3000 »

mmm_grayons wrote: post #271
endogui wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rhetoric about US values has been empty since Guantanamo Bay started housing "foreign militants". Europe seems to be the only place in the West where a commitment to human rights is sincere.

Really? 27% of Germans support the right to speech that offends minority groups, and less than half of Europeans as a whole [0]. A Swedish man was convicted for producing art that was deemed racist, and the owner of the gallery that displayed it was fined [1]. A man was famously prosecuted for a video of a dog performing a nazi salute [2]. A refugee may be expelled from Denmark after he left comments "celebrating" th…

Reasonable people can disagree about the limits of free speech, and when it becomes an attack on others. The American obsession with allowing Nazis and racists has done nothing to improve the lives of its people.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#334

Post by jariel »

crazygringo wrote: post #296

Good. We have something called "due process" in the US, and the attempted TikTok ban violates it. Due process is a bedrock of American law. It means government officials can't just "do what they want" and make arbitrary decisions with specific targets -- which is exactly what the TikTok ban is. You want to ban TikTok? Great, you need a specific law from Congress that outlines under what circumstances companies may be…

So this isn't quite true.

A) Foreign owned companies are subject to all sorts of other criteria and trade rules.

B) The issue cited is 'national security' in which case there is a wide latitude for tolerance.

'Suing the government' is not 'good' - it's a canard.

What Congress needs to do is ban all Chinese companies and activities wherein US companies of the same kind are not allowed to operate in China.

That China won't allow social networks there, but the US allows them here is bonkers ridiculous.

It would be like Canada saying 'We're banning aluminium imports, but demand that we can export to the US'.

All of this before 'security' even enters the equation.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#335

Post by jariel »

throw44532 wrote: post #294
nafizh wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a fair playing field if US companies can't do business in China, and Chinese companies can do in US?

They can. They just need to comply with China’s data and censorship laws. It’s why Microsoft and Apple are available in China.

Then it's not a level playing field, obviously.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#336

Post by macintux »

baddox wrote: post #328
macintux wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judges don’t answer to the government. They can be impeached, but that effectively never happens.

So they answer to no one?

They can be overruled by higher courts, and in some localities they’re forced to run for election.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#337

Post by mensetmanusman »

crazygringo wrote: post #296

Good. We have something called "due process" in the US, and the attempted TikTok ban violates it. Due process is a bedrock of American law. It means government officials can't just "do what they want" and make arbitrary decisions with specific targets -- which is exactly what the TikTok ban is. You want to ban TikTok? Great, you need a specific law from Congress that outlines under what circumstances companies may be…

Due process resulted in the presidency having way too much power.

Now, due process has to start focusing on increasing the federal structure of state’s power and the power that comes with their senators / house / etc.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#338

Post by bleah1000 »

bawolff wrote: post #88
bleah1000 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know that the Democrats are also not too happy with TikTok and the CCP? Biden even had his staffers remove the app. This is not as Trump/Republicans partisan as people think. There is a lot of bi-partisan support for TikTok as dangerous. It's highly probably that the solution is not the same, but many politicians are definitely worried about the app. It's also weird that so many people believe this idea that…

> A bunch of kids on TikTok saying they reserved tickets is not the same as actual proof. How is that relavent? Media claimed it was an embarrasment, trump wasn't able to spin it. Does it really matter what the kids did or did not do. Its an embarasment if there is public preception it is an embarassment. It isnt any less of an embarassment even if you are right that the story is based on something untrue (which seem…

What are you talking about, there are, literally, hundreds of stories about why Trump is bad, evil, or an embarrassment in the media. Why would a few more stories make him choose a policy against TikTok? He is constantly saying the media lies, so why wouldn't he just slough off those stories as more lies?

I think people really want this narrative to be true, so people are reaching for any evidence to back the claim. The story sounds so much better when you can make Trump look like a crazy person who is so thin skinned he will ban an app that offends him. But a lot of politicians on both sides of the aisle believe the CCP is a threat to the US, so this action is not as surprising as it may first seem. You've also got to remember that wechat was also targeted, so this is not hitting one app, but multiple Chinese apps.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#339

Post by wwwwwwwww »

Aunche wrote: post #310
throw44532 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can. They just need to comply with China’s data and censorship laws. It’s why Microsoft and Apple are available in China.

Technically, that's true, but it never really works that way. Google had complied with their laws, but got hacked. Foreign websites will get shut down randomly without warning or explanation. Sometimes they'll get restored, but even then the damage is already done. iTunes is still banned in China.

No, even technically, it is wrong.

Here is a Google example from when I lived in China: Google was at the time competing with Baidu over the search image market in China. My home internet was fast and with great quality. Only Google image search results had very often problems loading image previews. Its not that it "didn't work". It just failed "a little", maybe half the images in the results pag didn't load. So Google image search wasn't really blocked. It could have been total coincidence that it was like that for years and only for Google image search. The site that was coincidentally competing over the lead in the Chinese search market against a Chinese company. After some weeks, I started using Baidu image search, even though their result quality was worse. But at least it worked. I am sure many people in China did. That's "competition" in China.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#340

Post by squarefoot »

executive wrote: post #311
squarefoot wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah sorry, that wasn't my intention, I don't even use smartphones or social media, smartTVs or closed source operating systems/software (1). My point was, if I have to be concerned about privacy (in fact I actually am, see above) why should I fear about a foreign government while my own one is without any doubt more interested in knowing what I think? Of course should one day I become an important public figure, or a…

> I don't even use smartphones or social media you just posted this to a social media site

Well, non those social media sites. USENET is also a social media for that matter, though I think nobody would call it as such.
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