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How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

deprocrastination.co

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Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#71

Post by al_ak »

vitabenes wrote: post #68
al_ak wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do hope your page helps some people with their procrastination issues. But I can't help feel like your whole approach suffers from engineers disease. But maybe that's what will resonate with some folks. A compassionate therapist can also do wonders for procrastination.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. This is more of a clinical disection of procrastination. Many more of our blog posts and book chapters are more about the emotional side of things. Plus, we do coach people 1-on-1 in our program.

That sounds pretty great actually. I just know what for me, none of this really "clicked" until I had someone to work through these emotions with

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#72

Post by lucasmullens »

stakkur wrote: post #30

I generally disagree with these kinds of models. Not because motivation, triggers, etc. aren't real things, but because they couch the problem as being either outside of us, or quasi-genetic (ADHD, etc.), instead of a choice that we make and own. Taking action has varying degrees of difficulty for every person. The factors are numerous. But in history, in life, in every scenario I've ever read or studied or watched,…

So your solution to procrastination is to just take action?

I've got ADHD, and sometimes I feel like telling ADHD people to "just do it" is like telling a depressed person to "just be happy". It might work great for you, but for many that just doesn't work.

I get your point, and sometimes I can psych myself up enough to do something with the "just do it" mentality, but sometimes that doesn't work, and articles like this can help me understand why and how to fix it.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#73

Post by epicureanideal »

joekim wrote: post #65
epicureanideal wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think this is too limited. Analogous to how Keynes said classical / Ricardian economics discussed distribution of goods given a fixed level of production, the linked article doesn't consider that the maximum productive output on any given day is not the same, even when the 3 variables considered are maximized. "Behavior" here seems to be a boolean, "why we take action or not take action at any given moment",…

Well it is a lot more complicated. There is no "mental energy reserve", but we do get energized by norepinephrine in the brain and once it becomes saturated it it loses its effect. A simple technique to reset it is to activate the "sigh reflex". You just breathe in twice at a normal pace and then slowly exhale through the mouth. Another more powerful reset is to do yoga nidra for 10-20 minutes. Yoga nidra, once you f…

I'll definitely try this, but do you happen to have any links about this?

And yes, I realize "mental energy reserve" isn't a scientific term, it's just a term I'm using for lack of something better to label something I experience.

Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more than 10 times (maybe a few more on a good day). Eventually there are physical limits to their ability. Similarly if that team had not slept for 48 hours, or had done non-stop math problems for 18 hours and was asked to continue doing them.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#74

Post by oaao_ »

sna1l wrote: post #10

For things that I don't have the motivation to do (things I procrastinate), my strategy is to start doing the smallest possible unit of that thing as I can. Recently I started meditating, something I've tried to get into, but never have. I downloaded this app Balance which encourages daily practice (reminders, 3,5,10 guided meditations, etc). I am still not "motivated" to do it, but I don't need to be because it is j…

> For things that I don't have the motivation to do (things I procrastinate), my strategy is to start doing the smallest possible unit of that thing as I can.

I wanted to address this in a separate comment, especially given the prevalence in this thread of mentioning ADHD and its co-morbidities as further context for struggling with procrastination and 'motivation'.

It's important to be very aware about the ways to win and lose at what feels like the perpetual battle of trying to trick yourself into doing things, and for the crowd who can relate to this, I'd offer some caveats to what you said.

The operative point of "the smallest possible unit of that thing" is never, ever to systematically map out the entirety of a task and then select a small atomic subtask to do; that's just reaffirming your portrayal of something to yourself as insurmountable and monolithic.

Instead, choose the "smallest possible unit" that describes starting a task, and if the descriptions sound absurd then you're doing it right. For example, to a certain disposition, "do your laundry" or "do the dishes" basically invite avoidance, but "put your pair of teal socks into the hamper" or "turn on the faucet / wash one plate" is extremely easy to engage. What usually happens is you autopilot through a bunch of the task (it's OK if it's not all of it), and moreover you end up feeling great about yourself for doing more than you expected, which is strong positive reinforcement.

This is because you're not "shit at doing things"; you just need tricks to start doing things. And if the "smallest starting point descriptor" doesn't carry you through the entire task to completion, that's fine -- you can either parallelize a bunch of things this way and jump between them, and/or, your next "smallest starting point descriptor" is just the next step for that task anyway, so you can jump right back in.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#75

Post by epicureanideal »

non-entity wrote: post #37
system2 wrote: post #26

There is nothing can stop procrastinating but only if we do things we love. I remember being passionate about little electronics projects when I was young, I would spend 10+ hours per day without getting bored. Now if In need to do anything I will find something to postpone or do it half assed while doing something else at the same time. Do something you love and wouldn't get bored of. Like gardening or something. So…

The problem is I spend 8+ hours a day doing something I don't care about and by the time I can work on the things I love I'm mentally exhausted and just sleep for hours.

See my other comment in this thread. I think the model's lack of consideration for "mental exhaustion" means it's incomplete.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#76

Post by joekim »

epicureanideal wrote: post #73
joekim wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it is a lot more complicated. There is no "mental energy reserve", but we do get energized by norepinephrine in the brain and once it becomes saturated it it loses its effect. A simple technique to reset it is to activate the "sigh reflex". You just breathe in twice at a normal pace and then slowly exhale through the mouth. Another more powerful reset is to do yoga nidra for 10-20 minutes. Yoga nidra, once you f…

I'll definitely try this, but do you happen to have any links about this? And yes, I realize "mental energy reserve" isn't a scientific term, it's just a term I'm using for lack of something better to label something I experience. Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more t…

> Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more than 10 times (maybe a few more on a good day). Eventually there are physical limits to their ability. Similarly if that team had not slept for 48 hours, or had done non-stop math problems for 18 hours and was asked to continue doing them.

I want to challenge your thought experiment. Consider Navy Seal training. Pushing through via sheer force of will isn't possible. There needs to be a cycling and restorative process that enables above and beyond grit.

Clip of Prof Huberman on "quitting behavior" such as quitting a long bout of work. (Note: Noradrenaline is norepinephrine. It's a weird historical thing where two teams discovered it and nobody agreed on the real name)

https://podclips.com/ct/y4Ucji

Good Joe Rogan with Huberman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLJowTOkZVo

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#77

Post by joekim »

al_ak wrote: post #71
vitabenes wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. This is more of a clinical disection of procrastination. Many more of our blog posts and book chapters are more about the emotional side of things. Plus, we do coach people 1-on-1 in our program.

That sounds pretty great actually. I just know what for me, none of this really "clicked" until I had someone to work through these emotions with

Most procrastination is emotional management, a sort of self-medicating from stress. Having a skilled therapist working through it with you sounds fantastic.

I really like a technique called the "Sedona Method" for releasing difficult emotions.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#78

Post by epicureanideal »

joekim wrote: post #76
epicureanideal wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll definitely try this, but do you happen to have any links about this? And yes, I realize "mental energy reserve" isn't a scientific term, it's just a term I'm using for lack of something better to label something I experience. Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more t…

> Re: the football team though, no matter how energized they are, that team will not be able to lift more than their 1RM (1 rep max), they won't be able to lift their 10RM (10 rep max) more than 10 times (maybe a few more on a good day). Eventually there are physical limits to their ability. Similarly if that team had not slept for 48 hours, or had done non-stop math problems for 18 hours and was asked to continue do…

"Pushing through via sheer force of will isn't possible."

That's exactly what I'm saying. I'll check out the link.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#80

Post by tikhonj »

non-entity wrote: post #33
georgespencer wrote: post #25

It’s clearly not the case for everyone, but I struggled for an extended period of time with a few things in my personal and professional life: 1. Remarkable focus in topics which interest me and remarkable lack of focus in topics which do not. 2. Leaving “must do” tasks in areas of little interest until the very last moment, resulting in a predictable lack of excellence in execution. 3. Periodic deep dives into topic…

Ok serious question: Every one of these points is very applicable to me, especially 1,2 and 3. I haven't been to a doctor in years outside occasional emergency trips. How do you bring this up without seriously. I don't want to come off as the guy who compulsively self diagnoses based off what they read on the internet.

I was in a similar position. I did a bunch of reading on ADHD, convinced myself that I probably had it then I found a clinical psychologist who specialized in ADHD and reached out for an initial appointment. Apparently this is a pretty common story for people with ADHD who weren't diagnosed as children, so a specialist won't be particularly surprised by it.

The initial appointment is probably going to be an in-depth interview with the specialist, coupled with filling out some self-assessments and, possibly, getting somebody who knows you well to fill out an assessment as well. (Apparently people with ADHD usually drastically underestimate their own symptoms, which is why a third-party perspective is important.)

After I got diagnosed, the specialist gave me useful advice, learning materials and resources, including recommendations for psychiatrists to reach out to for treatment. This is pretty important because a combination of psychiatric treatment with learning new skills, coaching... works better than only doing one or the other.

If you can afford it or it works well with your insurance, I would highly recommend reaching out to a specialist instead of (or in addition to) talking to a normal doctor.

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