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Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

neomindlabs.com

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Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#141

Post by JoshTriplett »

Bootvis wrote: post #132
wry_discontent wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this still exactly market forces, though? In your example, Google is just driving up the market price for somebody who works on self-driving cars. In what way is it a deviation from market principles?

In the same way as offering products below costs would be to drive out competition and become a monopolist. I'm not sure I think this is bad but I believe this is the argument.

Equating the two creates a perception that employees shouldn't be paid as much as they're worth. An employee being paid $500k/year is probably producing even more value to their employer than that, and if anything, the goal should be to close the gap between value and compensation, not widen it.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#142

Post by crispyambulance »

cptskippy wrote: post #64
paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

> I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's intentional language used by employers because it has preconceived notions and they succinctly communicate a story that benefits the employer. When you hear poached, you think illegal and victims. It makes you think that the employer has been wronged in some way and that the employee was both participatory in something illegal or at least underhanded and at the s…

> The reality is that the employee was being taken advantage of by the employer and received an offer more closely aligned with their actual value.

It is also possible that the "poacher" has such a ridiculous amount of money at their disposal that they're able to suck a talent pool dry with "so-much-money-you-can't-refuse" offers. I think, however, that enough employees are getting wise to the fact that a FAANG offer isn't an automatic "yes".

People do turn down offers even if the money is crazy high, especially older folks who have gained some control over their career path, have job-satisfaction, and don't want to stage-dive into a competitive hellscape of Type-A 20-somethings.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#143

Post by ramraj07 »

bluedino wrote: post #120
game_the0ry wrote: post #23

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

>> The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. >> Investment bank and management consulting figured this out a long time ago. That only works if your business makes piles of money, like investment banks. Or FAANG. The rest of us have a % of money to spend on talent.

The rest of you waste more money hiring 5-10x more mediocre engineers to try to mitigate the bus factor or whatever. And it's still not as good a product as it will be built by a handful of good, over paid and over worked engineers who really know what they're doing.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#144

Post by JoshTriplett »

giantg2 wrote: post #101
LordKano wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approximately 10 years ago, I was really unhappy with my work situation and was checking job postings. I found one that sounded right up my alley and I reached out to the agency that posted it. They told me that because I was working for another one of their clients, they wouldn't submit me for the job because they felt it was unethical. I responded that I wasn't owned by my employer and just as they were free to let…

Sometimes the B2B contracts restrict the organizations from hiring each other's employees. This is pretty common. My company has at least two partnerships where these types of conditions are present.

> Sometimes the B2B contracts restrict the organizations from hiring each other's employees.

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-offer-415-million-to-...

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#145

Post by trhway »

throw1234651234 wrote: post #106
trhway wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But most of the time we're talking about something like $180k to $250k when getting poached to a FAANG In the last couple years we're talking 2-3x from our BigCo's $150-250K. Getting such an increase people do feel like being hit by a bus - at least my friend looked that way for a few days after getting such 3x offer couple years ago from a FAANG style company :) Our managers don't even try to match - during the 201…

Wait, are you saying 150-250k is standard and you can get more at FAANG? Most senior devs I know aren't breaking $130 in a flyover. To be clear, a lot aren't breaking $100,000.

It _was_ standard few years back and is still for anybody who hasn't changed job in the last 2-3 years. In our BigCo we're loosing people fast (only lazy sediment like me - Google gave me only 1x - is still there), and the new people, not much of them around though, are getting $300K+ .

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#146

Post by ptmcc »

georgeecollins wrote: post #118
ptmcc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is purely their fault for being uncompetitive in the wages and benefits offered to their employees. Of course they try to spin it negatively with loaded language. The best way to protect your prized employees is to treat them so well they'd be crazy to look elsewhere. If you, the business owner, can't afford that then you just aren't as competitive or successful as you think you are.

Or.. free markets for the capital holders, patronage for the workers. I don't mean to be malicious or anti-capitalist, but this seems like another example where companies want free markets when it involves taxes or costly regulation. But they oppose free markets when it causes labor costs to go up or reduces barriers to entry. It's a logical position for a corporation to hold but there is no ideological justification…

Hypocrisy? In my corporate America??

It's all platitudes of free market competition and meritocracy until the going gets tough and the competition (be it other businesses or labor) gets ahead of you. Then it's sob stories for bailouts, anti-competitive practices, and "but we're like a family here" drivel.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#147

Post by vkou »

blawson wrote: post #74
naveen99 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't count the equity appreciation as compensation. you already own the capital, its your own capital gain, not income from employer at that point.

Yes and no. When your RSUs are granted at 100k and then vest a few years later at 300k, from yours and the IRS' perspective you made whatever + 300k.

Yes, but you should value them at 100k, because it is the functional equivalent of getting a 100k cash bonus, that you (instead of diversifying) foolishly spent on buying a single company's stock.

You don't actually need to work at Facebook to sink 100k into buying Facebook stock (That you then forbid yourself from selling for 4 years).

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#148

Post by JoshTriplett »

JPKab wrote: post #86
paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

The thing that hits me is the "$500k+/year in the valley". Is this really a thing? Am I a giant dumbass for staying in Colorado? Even factoring in my stock grants, I'm nowhere close to that number.

It's really a thing, and it isn't just in the valley. You can find salaries like that in Silicon Forest, too. More than half of it will be stock and bonuses.

You're in a lower cost-of-living location, and one where there's less competition; employers don't pay as much there because they don't have to. That said, if you like where you are, you might start by looking for remote work that pays better (from companies that don't say "we can pay you half as much because you're not in California").

Also, look for employers that have a robust technical job ladder for advancement; that's part of how you get a salary like that, and even higher. (I know software architects making 7-figure salaries.)

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#149

Post by wry_discontent »

Bootvis wrote: post #132
wry_discontent wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this still exactly market forces, though? In your example, Google is just driving up the market price for somebody who works on self-driving cars. In what way is it a deviation from market principles?

In the same way as offering products below costs would be to drive out competition and become a monopolist. I'm not sure I think this is bad but I believe this is the argument.

In the same way, isn't that just the way markets work?

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#150

Post by BrentOzar »

nkrisc wrote: post #26
BrentOzar wrote: post #15

Instead of "hit by a bus," I prefer the term "win the lotto." Any member of your team could win a life-changing amount of money in the lottery, inherit it, win a gambling bet, etc. Frame it as a good thing rather than a death or a change of hire - somebody might just flat out retire because they don't financially need your employment anymore.

Sure, but even someone retiring after winning the lottery might deign to write a few things down for you. The point of the bus scenario is that there is not even the possibility to ask them a question you might get an answer to. I don't really see why framing it as a positive thing or negative thing matters, no one is actually getting hit by a bus, it's just a hypothetical scenario.

> Sure, but even someone retiring after winning the lottery might deign to write a few things down for you.

Might, or they might not. Just as if someone were hit by a bus, they might be able to communicate from their hospital bed...or they might not. Hope is not a strategy.

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