Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix • Hacker News Board

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#51

Post by Phlarp » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

fizwhiz wrote: post #30

heyoo wrote: post #13

Are $500k+ yearly salaries in SV really that usual?

> Are $500k+ yearly salaries in SV really that usual? Salaries? Not at all. Total compensation? Well, it depends. Software engineers with * Salary * Bonus (anywhere between 15-25% of salary) * Initial grant that vests over 3-4yrs * Stock "refreshers" that you get annually * General equity appreciation due to a bull market For senior engineers, the equity portion of their compensation far outweighs their salary.

>* General equity appreciation due to a bull market

This one can theoretically cut both directions

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#52

Post by johnchristopher » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

> Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

Not from the employer's perspective.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#53

Post by cylon13 » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

purple_ferret wrote: post #38

paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

> but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Some people would similarly have a problem with claiming a higher salary equals a 'better situation'

But again, it's not up to anyone besides the developer accepting the offer to judge what a better situation is. It's implied it's a better situation for them because they are intelligent independent human beings with their own values, and they accepted the offer. If it wasn't a better situation for them they wouldn't accept it.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#54

Post by Symmetry » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

pandaman wrote: post #29

paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poach 2 a: to take (game or fish) by illegal methods b: to appropriate (something) as one's own >>> c: to attract (someone, such as an employee or customer) away from a competitor <<<

The grandparent was complaining about the word's connotations, explicitly in fact. They weren't saying its denotations were incorrect here.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#55

Post by staycoolboy » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

rl1987 wrote: post #19

Realistically speaking, isn't getting hired by Netflix et. al. a practical impossibility for 99+ % of software developers?

Yes, it is. And the high salaries at netflix are for top performers, not someone who did a full stack, once.

Like you said, 99% of software developers are NOT the top 1%. ;-)

EDIT: I removed some snark after reading Zenbit_UX's reply.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#56

Post by JonLim » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #10

There's several reasons a bus is seen as worse than them being poached: * Early startup employees have golden handcuffs regarding switching jobs. Sure, Facebook is offering them $500k but they'd be on the hook for $200k in taxes if they exercise their options and they leave a bunch more un-vested options on the table. * You can mitigate them leaving by having a better work environment, equity and so on. Not much you…

As a counter point: the golden handcuffs for startups/companies aren't guaranteed to pay off, so the employee may decide that the options are still worth $0 and not bother with incurring taxes by exercising.

I'm probably okay with losing out on a sale event with a startup I've left, especially if my stake is <1%, if the big tech company pays as well as it's reported. YMMV.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#57

Post by LargeWu » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

roland35 wrote: post #16

perlgeek wrote: post #4

The "hit by a bus" thing is used for the most dramatic effect: there's nothing you can do, there's no grace period where a "poached" developer can give some wisdom to his/her successor etc. Managers know that it's not the most likely case, but it's still possible.

Yeah I think "hit by a bus" generally means there is 0 chance of knowledge transfer and is more a disaster recovery term than a talent retention term. Unless you really burn a bridge with your workers they should have at least a week or 2 to transfer knowledge!

In practice, "knowledge transfer" is pretty much a joke anyway. Unless they have been documenting important things to know along the way it's usually at best an ad-hoc, partial data dump of the most recent thing they were working on.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#58

Post by jariel » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #43

dqpb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way of saying it: > Never underestimate how much better a person's life can be by working for a FAANG instead of working for you Edit: For those who are downvoting, I'm simply saying this is what's implied by the quote. I'm not making a statement about FAANGs.

I don't think that is actually implied. A better life is very subjective.

Employees are absolutely allowed to define for themselves what 'makes a better life' for them, and their choice to move would almost assuredly be an indication of that, hence the implication by moving there.

Edit: I should add, it's probably mostly about the money. I mean, nice office, all the perks, all enabled by money. And for most people a very material raise in pay makes a difference

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#59

Post by MattGaiser » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

BrentOzar wrote: post #15

Instead of "hit by a bus," I prefer the term "win the lotto." Any member of your team could win a life-changing amount of money in the lottery, inherit it, win a gambling bet, etc. Frame it as a good thing rather than a death or a change of hire - somebody might just flat out retire because they don't financially need your employment anymore.

I see this one as a different problem.

If your team members who won the lotto would just give their two weeks and quit, then your company/team has a substantial morale/motivation problem.

Such a company is not creating an environment where people enjoy being a part of it.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#60

Post by Teknoman117 » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #45

purple_ferret wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Some people would similarly have a problem with claiming a higher salary equals a 'better situation'

A higher salary is an indicator of a better situation, it isn’t the situation itself. It just happens to also be one of the easiest indicators to sell to a prospective employee. A great company culture is also a “better situation” but it’s a lot less tangible from the outside.

That's one of the reasons I work where I do. My coworkers are fantastic and I don't get up in the morning hating the fact I have to go to work. Sure I could make more in the Bay (but really not all that much more), but it's hard to beat living walking distance from the office and actually enjoying your place of work.

(Satellite office of a bay area company)