The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility • Hacker News Board

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#51

Post by shadowgovt » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:56 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #18

I would argue Visa and Mastercard and payment processing at large as the top priority by far. It's crazy that we've given up control as a society of the only mechanisms for electronic payments in an increasingly cashless world to unregulated private entities who continue to jack up fees as often as they can get away with. Makes everything 3-5% more expensive. Ridiculous.

There is 100% nothing stopping the Federal government from offering a full-faith-and-credit-backed "America electronic transaction system" for electronic transactions, with those fees handled by taxes.

But much as there's nothing stopping the Federal government from greatly simplifying the burden and toil of tax season by issuing 90% of Americans a pre-filled-out "This is what you owe; sign this and return it or dispute it with your own filing," we won't do that because fully half of Congress is from a party that has, as a plank, that private institutions serve the public interest better than public institutions.

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#52

Post by glitchc » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:57 PM UTC

This seems excessive. Instead of regulating search, which would have a net effect of entrenching Google as the only de-facto search engine, it is better to let competition take its course. A better technology can always up-end Google's business model (it's more fragile than people think). Let the open market perform its function. After all, it was only 2000 when people thought MS and RIM were too big and needed to be regulated. Nowadays, MS has lost much of its competitive edge in the desktop space and RIM is just a patent-holding shell of its former self.

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#53

Post by hyperbovine » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:57 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #18

I would argue Visa and Mastercard and payment processing at large as the top priority by far. It's crazy that we've given up control as a society of the only mechanisms for electronic payments in an increasingly cashless world to unregulated private entities who continue to jack up fees as often as they can get away with. Makes everything 3-5% more expensive. Ridiculous.

I can't see this duopoly persisting for that much longer. If I say the phrase "don't leave home without it", what is the first thing that comes to mind? I'm guessing it runs iOS or Android. In the long run, he who controls phones, controls payments. (Which actually strengthens TFA's case, if you think about it.) Visa and MC execs must know this and be scared shitless.

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#54

Post by xapata » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:57 PM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #11

One Google quirk I've been thinking about lately is the times when you search for something and the thing you want is the top advertised and organic result. Seems like a waste of money. An example, if you search for "heroku" then you get an ad for heroku, which, yeah, is what I was searching for, but heroku is also the top result and obviously what I was looking for. Heroku is paying Google to provide Google with the…

I was told that these ads are very cheap, because Google scores the relevance very high.

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#55

Post by satyrnein » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #18

I would argue Visa and Mastercard and payment processing at large as the top priority by far. It's crazy that we've given up control as a society of the only mechanisms for electronic payments in an increasingly cashless world to unregulated private entities who continue to jack up fees as often as they can get away with. Makes everything 3-5% more expensive. Ridiculous.

I definitely have concerns about the stranglehold the payment processors have, but does it really make everything 3-5% more expensive?

My understanding was that a good chunk of the 3% fee is given back to consumers as cash back or rewards, and that dealing with cash also had costs for businesses.

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#56

Post by dogma1138 » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #18

I would argue Visa and Mastercard and payment processing at large as the top priority by far. It's crazy that we've given up control as a society of the only mechanisms for electronic payments in an increasingly cashless world to unregulated private entities who continue to jack up fees as often as they can get away with. Makes everything 3-5% more expensive. Ridiculous.

Payment processors and providers are regulated around the world and in the US, if the US wanted too they could cap fees they already do to some extent just not as much as say Europe.

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#57

Post by shadowgovt » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

12xo wrote: post #50

On top of search, one of the real issues is that they set their ad prices with no market forces at play. $50 per click? Why yes, but only because they say so... Fake click? We say its real, pay us...

There are several other competing ad networks, as well as traditional advertising models. Nobody actually has to play Google's ad game; companies continue to crunch the numbers and decide it works out best for them in terms of dollar-per-value-add.

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#58

Post by tempsy » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #43

tempsy wrote: post #18

I would argue Visa and Mastercard and payment processing at large as the top priority by far. It's crazy that we've given up control as a society of the only mechanisms for electronic payments in an increasingly cashless world to unregulated private entities who continue to jack up fees as often as they can get away with. Makes everything 3-5% more expensive. Ridiculous.

Unregulated?! IMO they are heavily regulated. I can understand believing that they are under regulated, but they are hardly unregulated. E.g. https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/6500-2260.html https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/help/card-act-1... https://blog.payjunction.com/credit-card-processing-regulato...

every industry is regulated to a certain degree, but categorizing an industry as a utility is a step change difference.

in the US we do not regulate interchange fees except via Durbin Amendment (only passed 10 years ago) which regulates debit interchange for large banks only. this is totally different from Europe where interchange is heavily regulated.

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#59

Post by ISL » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #18

I would argue Visa and Mastercard and payment processing at large as the top priority by far. It's crazy that we've given up control as a society of the only mechanisms for electronic payments in an increasingly cashless world to unregulated private entities who continue to jack up fees as often as they can get away with. Makes everything 3-5% more expensive. Ridiculous.

In the long run, overpaying for electronic transactions should only be the case if the major card-issuers collude.

Otherwise, vendors should gravitate to those issuers that yield acceptable service at the lowest price and customers should gravitate toward those issuers that deliver them the greatest value.

Rewards-point/miles schemes are moderately insane, but they allow the customer to express their preferences with greater precision. Want to pay a lower effective transaction fee, perhaps at the risk of higher interest rates if you carry a balance? Choose a cash-back card.

Perhaps 3-5% is actually what compliance/fraud-detection/customer-service/etc. ultimately requires? I was once a huge Bitcoin advocate; crypto transactions absolutely have a place in the world, but the true irreversibility of such transactions (at demonstrably lower costs) opens a huge door for nefarious actors.

Re: The case for why Google should be regulated as a public utility

#60

Post by revnode » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 4:00 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #18

I would argue Visa and Mastercard and payment processing at large as the top priority by far. It's crazy that we've given up control as a society of the only mechanisms for electronic payments in an increasingly cashless world to unregulated private entities who continue to jack up fees as often as they can get away with. Makes everything 3-5% more expensive. Ridiculous.

While Visa and Mastercard are the big fish in the sea, they do have competition. There is also Discover and American Express. They also charge similar rates, which suggests that 3% fee isn't random. Not sure where 4%/5% came from, fees average out to somewhere between 2%-3% for small merchants.