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Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#241

Post by syshum »

gfodor wrote: post #176
jacquesm wrote: post #95

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

A common refrain, but is anything but obvious. Focusing on the browser could be a losing strategy. I'd argue it probably is. The trajectory is terrible: the tech is being commoditized (WebKit, Chromium) and the market share picture is bleak. The opportunity cost is huge: maintaining a web engine, one which basically just tries to keep up with the others put out by Google et al, takes armies of people that could perha…

That is a for-profit goal when profit is the sole motivation

Mozilla while it has a For-Profit Corporation, is still at its core a Non-Profit, they need to keep true to that mission

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#242

Post by TheCoelacanth »

takluyver wrote: post #114
EdwinLarkin wrote: post #50

It blows my mind that no company is currently able to challenge Chrome. Not even Microsoft or Apple is interested to challenge the status quo.

I think they are able. Apple still arguably does. But there's no obvious incentive for them. Developing your own browser engine is a big ongoing investment, constantly adding new features and promptly plugging security vulnerabilities. We've long expected browsers to be free, so it doesn't generate any direct income. If they want to collect data with it, they can wrap Blink in their own app. Mozilla keeps it up becau…

Apple can't really compete with Chrome. They have walled off one little walled garden (iOS) that Chrome isn't allowed to enter, but everywhere that Chrome is allowed, it is crushing Safari.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#243

Post by staktrace »

jacquesm wrote: post #95

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

> Get the most secure and most user friendly, privacy first, standards compatible and feature rich browser out there and you'll survive for another decade at least. Get distracted by new and shiny stuff and I'd be surprised if it lasts another five years.

What's the point of survival in the kind of world this would result in? To paraphrase, this kind of life is not a life worth living. The internet activism part is core to Mozilla's mission, without that there's no point to having Firefox at all. Chrome is a perfectly functional browser.

I can hear your rebuttal now: oh Firefox offers better privacy. Sure, in the browser Firefox offers better privacy. But the Internet as a whole is sick, so having a good browser without activism to fix the Internet is just papering over the real problems.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#244

Post by mikorym »

jacquesm wrote: post #95

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

While I agree with this:

> Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest.

There is also this:

> As of today, the Thunderbird project will be operating from a new wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation, MZLA Technologies Corporation. [1] (January 28th 2020)

I think that proper email and calendar is what people need too. It's a big market and something you would more obviously pay for than a browser. Protonmail doesn't have a good calendar; Google doesn't have good privacy.

[1] https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/thunderbirds-new-home/

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#245

Post by throwaway234101 »

Corporate cancer[0] strikes again. Mozilla took on a lot of social justice projects over the years. They hung around their ankles like a boat anchor. Good on them for jettisoning that excess baggage and refocusing on their primary business.

[0]: https://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Cancer-Miracles-Millions-Co...

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#246

Post by CameronNemo »

calcifer wrote: post #236
jacquesm wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's turn that around: How much would it cost to run a lean-and-mean Mozilla that just focuses on FireFox? How much does it cost to run an unfocused Mozilla that tries very hard to compete with all those huge platforms out there? It's the latter company that I would not be willing to pay for, the former would have my cash, and more than they would likely expect from one single user. That's because I think that cedin…

OK, let's play this game: You are now fully in control of Mozilla - projects, finances, it's all on you. How would you turn Firefox into a browser with significant market share in an increasingly mobile world where two competitors control default applications and most users newer change any defaults?

I like this question. Not as a way to argue, but as actual productive discussion.

I would work with the LineageOS, Replicant, Ubuntu Touch, postmarketOS, microG, Fairphone, Pinephone, etc. folks to integrate the Gecko engine as much as possible into their offerings. Or at least offer flavors that do so, or prompts to select a browser engine on first boot. If necessary and economical I would pay LOS to ship Firefox by default.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#247

Post by calcifer »

spinningslate wrote: post #226

I feel for everyone who will lose their job here. That's never a pleasant thing, particularly so in current circumstances. Notwithstanding that though - and with no disrespect to anyone being laid off - I'm actually really encouraged by this. The key quote from the announcement is this one: "Furthermore, Mozilla's contract with Google to include Google as the default search provider inside Firefox is set to expire la…

> The key quote from the announcement is this one:

> "Furthermore, Mozilla's contract with Google to include Google as the default search provider inside Firefox is set to expire later this year, and the contract has not been renewed."

That sentence doesn't seem to be anywhere in the announcement, nor in the linked PDF. Where are you getting this?

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#248

Post by CameronNemo »

Mozilla should offer a way to make donations that are earmarked for direct use on Firefox engineering.

Not marketing, not new services, none of that... just engineering the core product.

Other expenses can come out of the general donation fund.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#249

Post by DCKing »

jacquesm wrote: post #95

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

> Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest.

This is short term thinking. A slightly better Firefox tomorrow is nice I guess, buy I care way more about being able to use Firefox in 2030, or 2040. Making a browser is not looking like a business model that is going to make you last forever - not when Google is your competition. Their business model already depends on them being financed by other tech companies which are the epitomes of the ad tech industry. Their market share is shrinking, and the moment Google (and their other sponsors, but mostly Google) think they can get away with it they will cut Mozilla's funding.

I very much encourage their branching out if it leads to them being more independent and sustainable as a company. Moreover, I think [1] the idea of Firefox providing basic internet services is a really good idea.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23566732

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#250

Post by macspoofing »

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #50

It blows my mind that no company is currently able to challenge Chrome. Not even Microsoft or Apple is interested to challenge the status quo.

I think it's only a matter of time before Microsoft does a hard fork of Chromium.
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